Woodie - DS1 project

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Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:00 am

Looks nice. Will b curious to find out how your design is working for you in practice.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:56 pm

Making a little progress, Just epoxied the bulkhead frame in position. Before I did that I decided to smooth out the hull deck joint from the inside and run a bead of thickened epoxy to reinforce the joint. This may be a weak area as I've seen a few older DaySailers that had reinforcement done after the joint failed and it isn''t pretty. "Woodie" is going to be set up for heavy weather to take on the Columbia Gorge so this is cheap insurance and wouldn't want to do this after the bulkhead is in place. Here is were we are

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GreenLake, the barber hauler control will be slightly under the deck. I hollowed out the deck beam support on the inside for the lines and the control should be very convenient for the crew. The line will be continuous so you can release the lazy hauler from the high side. I think of the barber haulers as a fine tuning device to employ after the jib sheet is set. My long suffering crew gets all sorts of bruises so the idea is to not have any sharp edges, if possible.

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Now I'm milling up the wood for the bulkhead. I'm going to try the suggested "cove and bead" joints as the bulkhead has a nice gentle curve. I'll glue up the bulkhead then take it out and glass each side, cut out the hatch and then put it in place. Here is why a cove and bead is easier and better than if I try to match each plank.

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Should make a smoother, tighter joint. I'm going to use an African Mahogany and Red Cedar to try to keep the weight down.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm

Just for comparison, here's another picture showing a barber hauler setup (from this thread).
Image
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:14 pm

@lemsteraak:

Looking good! I hadn't ever though about re-enforcing the hull/deck joint from inside, good call! Maybe next year :)

Any thoughts about re-enforcing the chainplate attachment? At least on my hull it's a pair of #8 screws (guesstimating..they may be #10's) into the bare hull. I stare at them with suspicion every time I'm working on the boat. They seem OK, they're stainless, they've held up for at least 20 years. Why mess with success, but.....

So, how do you feel about your chainplates?

Tom
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Chainplate bolts are loaded on shear. Some of them may also have the chainplate itself rest against the deck; if it is in form of an inverted T. That may explain why they last. Mine are over 50 years.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:31 pm

Good call, I'll take a look. I don't see any movement but stainless is odd. I've heard it will fail catastrophically without warning. I far prefer bronze. You are going to see a lot of bronze on Woodie
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:43 pm

Stainless is given to crevice corrosion and cracking. Definitely something to check for, as much as you can. Especially if you sail in saltwater and in places where salt can get trapped.

That said, chainplate failures have not been reported here with any alarming frequency.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:14 pm

I think O'Day used very good stainless because the chainplates and bolts look perfect to my eye, I can't see any movement, but then again Woodie appears to be a fresh water boat. I'm thinking of leaving it as is. I don't think I can get that grade of stainless. I know you really have to be careful with hardware store stainless, soft and still corrodes. I'm going to have a new standing rigging made and talked to our local rigger about it. I've heard there is some sketchy stainless wire coming out of China but he said they will be using 316 Stainless sourced from South Korea. What about the US stuff?, they said it is way too expensive. Maybe I'll need to go up a wire size.

A little more progress. I'm now planking up the bulkhead but it is a slow process. I didn't think I would have to use clamps but each plank has a twist and the bulkhead is curved so I'm going slow. The planks are cut really thin so they can easily take the bending. I started with an African Mahogany for the first few planks and am now switching to Western Red Cedar which doesn't mill as nicely but is really easy to work with and super lightweight. The thought is that the middle planks will take more abuse. Once all the planks are glued up, I plan to pop the whole bulkhead out. I'll sand and fiberglass each side so it will be a composite, light and strong. I'll cut out a nice big hatch and then I'm thinking of bedding the whole thing down in some sort of soft caulking compound. I don't know if it will ever need to be removed but I want to be kind to the next owner.

Image
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:43 pm

If the seam that you are planning to caulk can pull apart when the boat deforms under load, then perhaps make sure you use an adhesive caulk. That's the reverse of the situation of trying to bed some hardware that is being held on via bolts. In the latter case, you want something that never quite cures, so it continues to seal, but can come off easily when you unbolt the piece. Here it seems that your seam may have to take some loads (e.g. when the boat is pounded by wavers or on the trailer, or deformed from rig tension). Anything that isn't adhesive could be expected to work loose over time.

But I have to admit, I can't quite picture which part you would caulk.

In designing a hatch, think of this like you would of a stable or barn door. You want something that opens very wide for stowing gear. But you'd like a smaller opening (like the door-in-door you find in many farm buildings or factories) to be able to quickly retrieve some (smaller) items while underway. Large hatches can be a pain to deal with while you are sailing, but be less of an issue at the end of the day (for example if you are camping in or from the boat).

For a small hatch, if you hinge the top of your larger hatch, so you can fold down 6-9" of it, leaving it attached to main part of the hatch, it's very convenient access to things you can pack in reach of that opening. And the bottom half of the hatch would still be a great surface to mount compasses, or some mesh bags to house halyard tails and the like.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:05 pm

With all due respect, GL, I thought that the whole purpose of this bulkhead exercise was to create a watertight compartment forward in case of capsize? I can see where it won't be and probably can't be 100% watertight - how to seal mast partners? But a hinged main hatch just seems to be asking for trouble.

If it were me, I'd just build a normal hatch with a foam gasket and secure it with toggle-type "turn dogs." Anything small that needs to be stowed can go under the wooden seats, build some bins. Anything large (sailbag, cooler), undog the hatch, toss it in or grab it, dog the hatch. Put small bags on the bulkhead for anything else. Put your 'chute bag or basket under the thwart.

Anyway, how do you build a secure two-part hatch like you're proposing? I'm honestly curious, and I have a big gaping hole in my aft bulkhead that needs covering..... As always, I appreciate your thoughts and insights!
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:33 pm

Tomodda, yes, the bulkhead will be watertight. It is just slow going. I first had to laminate up a frame for the bulkhead to sit in and now I'm laminating up the bulkhead using the frame as a mold. Because of the curvature and twist in each plank, I can't glue up the whole bulkhead at one time. Here is an glimpse of the curve in the bulkhead.

Image

I'm only able to glue up a couple planks at a time. Each plank has a cove edge so it fits flush to it neighbor. The problem I didn't anticipate is that the planks don't really lock together so I have to use a lot of clamps to hold them in place while the glue sets. Once I finish this lamination, I'll pop it out and then fiberglass each side. The wood is really just a mold for the fiberglass, the glass will give it strength and impact resistance. Then once both sides are glassed then I'll cut out the hatch.

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Then I will use these pretty little delron tabs to hold the hatch in place. Inside the hatch will be a cleat all the way around with grove and surgical tubing let in to act as a seal. At least that is the plan, but as you noticed, I'm winging it so all your ideas are helping me come up with something that may actually work. Thank you
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:16 am

Image

The center section of the bulkhead set in place. It is really thin, less than 1/4 inch of red cedar so it had no strength. We were given some surplus fiberglass cloth so I glassed each side of the bulkhead with epoxy resin and the difference is astounding. I'll need this strength so I don't break it when I cut the hole for the hatch. Here is a really good video on the properties of using glass fiber for reinforcement. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pc-Sd_J26E
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:24 pm

Nice video. Finally had a chance to view it.

Looks like your project is coming along nicely.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:01 pm

The hatch has proven to be a bit of a challenge. I cut out a hatch large enough so that a person could fit through. The bottom of the bulkhead is pointed up in these pictures.
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I want it large enough so a person could fit through. I laminated up a hatch frame before I made the cut-out for the hatch. I was afraid the bulkhead would be so weak I could accidentally break it. The frame was laminated from very thin wood so it would take the shape of the bulkhead easily.

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When the epoxy sets it should be strong again.

I'm going to make the bulkhead removable if you need to do repairs. It wouldn't be very pleasant to have to crawl through the hatch and try to make repairs in such a small space. Maybe it is that I don't like confined spaces much.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:38 am

Sounds like the correct decision.
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