New owner of 1966 DS1

[PenBayJ]

I'm the new owner of an approximately 1966 DS1, based in Maine.

I've so far got lots of great information from this forum, so thank you all!

The boat is old, but the previous owner took good care and put in lots of work: new standing rigging, newer running rigging and sails, re-varnished woodwork, and more.

There are a few things I'd like to add, especially for sailing in the windier conditions and chop of Penobscot Bay in Maine:

1. Reefing lines and hardware (the main already has reefing points)
2. Boom vang
3. Better outhaul setup
4. Cunningham
5. Tiller extension
6. Hiking straps

Most of these will probably be winter projects. For now, I'll just focus on getting in a few more outings before the end of the season.

Other maintenance things I'm eyeing up: repainting the hull (it has a lot of crazing, but it's very even so I suspect is age and UV, not anything more serious); reinforcing the cuddy (some cracks on the corners of the opening); inspection ports in the benches. But I'm going to ignore these for now, and maybe consider how important they are after more sailing.

A few questions:

1. How much of a drip/leak from the centerboard handle is normal? The current rate doesn't seem concerning, but does any leak at all call for a replacement gasket?

2. What is the usual main sheet "traveler" set up on a DS1. It's hard to tell from photos online. At present, the setup doesn't allow the main sheet blocks to move along the traveler line, and I'm OK with that cause the alternative is a traveler that is basically always at its leeward limit. But is there another way to rig it so that it functions like a track traveler and can be used to pull the boom to windward?

3. Does anyone have experience with a half-decent rowing set up for a DS1? I know it's never going to be that fast, but could be more efficient than paddling. Basically, it would be nice to cover that last half mile or so without an engine when the wind dies.

[tomodda]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I'll try to answer your questions as best possible, in my usual rambling way:

1. How much of a drip/leak from the centerboard handle is normal? The current rate doesn't seem concerning, but does any leak at all call for a replacement gasket?

All boats leak, what matters is how much you feel like bailing! The centerboard swings on a square "axle", which goes thru a hole on the starbd side of the trunk and the handle screws to the end of the axis. There's that big triangular frame that holds the starboard side of the axle and also presses the gasket into place against the hole in the CB. So, if I were you (famous last words), I'd start out by simply tightening the three screws holding the triangular frame to the CB Trunk. Be careful, though, when I was removing my CB I managed to sheer one of the bolts - they are probably original, 58 years old on your DS, go gently. OTOH, you're gonna have to remove those screws if you want to replace the gasket, so no added "risk" in trying to tighten them first.

2. What is the usual main sheet "traveler" set up on a DS1. It's hard to tell from photos online. At present, the setup doesn't allow the main sheet blocks to move along the traveler line, and I'm OK with that cause the alternative is a traveler that is basically always at its leeward limit. But is there another way to rig it so that it functions like a track traveler and can be used to pull the boom to windward?

You are planning to set up a boom vang, right? Make sure to set one up with at least a 12-1 purchase and read the posts here on this site about "vang sheeting". With a good vang, you don't need to pull the boom to the windward of the centerline. Remembering, the whole reason for pulling the boom to windward is to control mainsail twist. A good Boom Vang does the same thing, just better. Anyway, read here re: traveler, is how I set up mine - it has two settings "short" and "long", otherwise I use my vang:

https://forum.daysailer.org/tech_rigguide.php

By the way, unless you are racing, ditch the Cunningham, rig a boom downhaul. Just my not-humble opinion, of course, but why screw around with the luff when you can just pull the boom down? Capt Briggs Cunningham invented his eponymous rig specifically to circumvent the racing rule forbidding boom downhauls. So, if you're not racing, why bother? That being said (written), be aware that space is at a premium between the boom and the cuddy top. Between boom vang, reefing gear, halyards, etc, there's a lot going on in very little space. A possible help - on my hinged mast, I mounted a D-shaped Boom Bail on the aft tabernacle pin, and the boom vang goes to a snap shackle (mind the mean working and breaking loads!) which rides on the Boom Bail.

3. Does anyone have experience with a half-decent rowing set up for a DS1? I know it's never going to be that fast, but could be more efficient than paddling. Basically, it would be nice to cover that last half mile or so without an engine when the wind dies.

No experience, just research from when I was considering oars (prior to my present electric outboard). You need at least 8', ideally 9' oars and you need to put your oarlocks on small risers (1 or 2 inches) to clear the rubrail. You'll want to sit on the Centerboard thwart, which for a 1966 boat means you'll need to build yourself a little "stool" to clear the top of the CB Trunk. Also, check out these videos (prepare to have mind blown, expedition sailing a DS2 off Labrador):

https://youtu.be/4TXjzoilnwU?t=420

Here's a view of their sliding seat, talk about overkill (handy for expedition, though):

https://youtu.be/Mm8xjwYqR_U?t=239

Anyway, both short clips should give you a good idea of how to mount the oarlocks. I like that their oarlocks also fold out of the way, although you'll be just fine mounting/unmounting them when you row. Make sure to put a good stout and long backing plate underneath the oarlock mounts! Spread the load over as much of your side-deck as possible.

Love the Penobscot Bay! Where are you sailing out of? I've sailed over around Deer Island, but never the West Side of the Bay, too $$ for me anyways.... One of these days, though.., would love to launch at Rockland and sneak over to Vinalhaven. The Basin/Granite Island fascinates me, if I can time the entrance right. One day.

Fair winds!

Tom

[GreenLake]

Let me chime in with a second opinion on a few points:

Drip: Get a new gasket. Put it in. It may not totally prevent a drip, or not forever, but these things usually need to be replaced. I have a bit of a drip that's at the "put a sponge under it" level (I no longer use the wooden slat floor boards, so no rot issue). Soon, it's tile to service the gaskets again. DR Marine has the proper ones, H/W store replacements would work, if you can find that size (I had little luck).

If you wait too long, it might look like this:



(I have an aftermarket bolt on the opposite side from the handle. That's what you are looking at.)

Reefing/Vang: I added reefs before a vang. Boat had neither when I got it. Both help with control at the upper end of thew wind range, I use both now and recommend both. Look at older posts under "Rigging" to see suggestions. (This is not FaceBook: older material is readily found).

Rowing: the DS doesn't have a hull that works well for that. Get a small electric motor (see Electric Paddle review in "Miscellaneous"; get the optional DC to DC converter and an extra Lithium 12V "car" battery and you'll have hours of (quiet) range and won't get frustrated by a hull that just doesn't like to be human powered.

[tomodda]

The Daysailer is certainly not the ideal boat for rowing! I've never tried it but I have enough experience with the hullform to tell anyone who tries to sit as far forward as possible, meaning on the thwarts. You want as little wetted surface from the broad aft section of the hull as possible. You won't get it OUT of the water (would be nice), but even an inch of depth makes a difference. I you have crew, send them forward of the mast. Of course, if you have the $$, I second GreenLake's recommendation of the EP Carry Electric Motor, since I have one myself and love it! That being said, both rowing and the EP Carry have about the same 1HP output, you wont move faster than 1-2knots. so tidal currents can be a problem....

[GreenLake]

I get 2.8 to 3.3 knots with the EP Carry depending on where I sit in the boat (if by myself). The boat is fastest if I sit on top of the cuddy (not courageous enough to motor while sitting in front of the mast )

You get the same speed with a 40-55# trolling motor. They are much cheaper, but also noticeably heavier. The cheapest batteries for them are lead-acid (deep cycle, not car batteries) and they are quite heavy. As in, really heavy, and awkward if you need to unload them to get them charged.

If you were willing to double the cost of your batteries, you could get drop in LiFePo 12V batteries which would work fine with a trolling motor, but are light enough to manhandle. Also, you can discharge them more deeply, so a 100 Ah battery gives you the same range as two lead acid 100Ah battery that you can only discharge to 50% at best.

The EP Carry uses 1/3 the electric power of an equivalent trolling motor (while being comparable in propulsion for a DS). That means if you want longer range, you get 6 times the range from a Lithium battery + EP Carry than with a trolling motor an lead acid. And it won't break your back to get the battery our of the boat.

You can get a converter to run the EP Carry off a big 12V battery rather than the small 24V battery it comes with -- haven't tried it, but it's on my list of potential upgrades to ease any lingering "range anxiety"... however, the reason I have not done it, is that I've only come close once to using up the one hour at full power that you get with that tiny battery.

[PenBayJ]

Thank you Green Lake and Tom! Lots of great info there!

So it sounds like it isn't worth sinking time and energy into a rowing setup. (Though I'm flattered at the suggestion I have 1 hp rowing output ) I actually have an old trolling motor, so will look into getting a battery for that. The EP Carry sounds great, but like you said, is expensive....

[Alan]

We just got back from our annual canoe-and-kayak adventure in Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming. I had a chance there to try a 55-lb. thrust trolling motor with a 100-amp-hour lithium-iron-phosphate battery. Worked like a charm, driving an 87-pound touring canoe loaded with about 500 pounds of people and stuff. After four hours of motoring, using anywhere from 25 per cent to about 80 per cent throttle, I still had 62 per cent battery remaining.

At home in a test tank (AKA big trash can full of water) I've consistently gotten 5 hours at about 80 per cent throttle before the battery ran down.

The battery weighs 19 pounds, compared to my previous 74-pound, 105 amp-hour AGM batteries (two of them because of discharge limits, as GreenLake noted).

My experience with using the trolling motor in my Daysailer, way back when, was that I was being outrun by kayaks, so you might need to use a lot of throttle. Definitely worth a try though, especially since LiFePo4 batteries can be had for a reasonable price these days.

[tomodda]

PenBayJ:

Yes, between all the aggravation of setting up rowing on the DS, and already knowing that it's a "pig" to row, I bit the bullet and splashed out for an EP Carry. Although it's a wonderful engine - light, reliable - it has also has a very specific use case. Basically getting me to and fro between the dock and the no-wake marker, which is where I usually raise/lower sail. Not that I haven't sailed onto/off the dock plenty of times, but motoring is way easier on everyone's nerves. Otherwise, I use it in dead calms when I don't feel like going for a swim and waiting it out, and (no shame here!) for a brief tacking assist in very light winds. The advantage of a "push-button" outboard! I've had to use it twice in emergencies, once when I broke a mast spreader and once when I broke the tabernacle. In both cases I had to motor about a mile, that's it, but took a good while. That being said, in an emergency, I don't care how fast or slow I'm going, I just want to get there!

OK, so what does this have to do with your excellent idea to use a trolling motor that you already have? Just that the reason I didn't go with a trolling motor is that I didn't want to be stuck with a heavy lead/acid battery - both weight and extra expense to get a deep-cycle marine battery. But now you do have better battery options, so do your research and go for it! Likewise for range and top speed. Trolling motors are not really suited for "cruising" (going more than a few miles) and neither is the EP Carry. As GL wrote, you now have more battery options for either approach, so you can stretch out your range. I've never had to electric motor against a serious current, but I have motored up into a serious headwind. Not pretty, is all I can say, barely made any headway but did what I needed. You know your own needed in the Penebscot. IIRC, although it's very tidal there are no really bad currents, I think the worst is 1.5 knots around Vinalhaven. With the exception of the outfalls, of course, like the Bagaduce. But I've mostly sailed around Deer Isle and up the Reach, so what do I know? As for headwinds, why would I be motoring instead of sailing, even if I have to tack a zillion times. Only exception being mast/rigging emergencies, in which case I'll take any headway at all.

Well, there's my 2 cents. Good luck rigging non-sail propulsion for the DS. It's not that hard at all, just requires thought. And IMHO, anything to avoid a gas outboard is worth it!

[GreenLake]

What Tom writes. Note that tidal currents are not constant, both in time and space. I remember finding myself in stronger than expected currents with my original trolling motor (40#) and not making any progress. I ended up doing the "ferry glide" to move sideways out of the center of the current. That worked, but the return of a decent wind made all of it moot in the end. I have been able to use the EP Carry to head into the wind to take down sails when I was overpowered sailing by myself. Very surprised at the time to see that working successfully.