Wooden Seats

[Guest]

I've just bought an old DSI for a song, and I've been reading posts here to see what other folks' boats are like at this age (mine's a 1962, or so I'm told; class # 1247). I am amazed to hear that most of these boats seem to have wooden seats and floorboards! My boat has molded fiberglass bench seats that are 'glassed into the deck; they conceal foam block floatation. There is texture in the "seat" area on the benches, but I see no evidence of any place to install wooden seats -- much less any place where there might have been seats originally. Is this common?

As well, my new toy is in desparate need of a paint job...and the mast has been painted black at some point in the past. Can anyone tell me whether this is likely to have been a factory-original paint job, or whether someone painted it after purchase? Do I need to keep it painted to protect it from the elements?

Thanks for the help!

Greg Farley (farley-at-bio.fsu.edu)

[Guest]

I have a DSII and what your describing sounds a lot like a DSIII. The ones I have seen have black masts and like the DSII they have formed seats. Does your boat have a bulkhead? Is there a raised floor in the cuddy? What method do you use to raise the centerboard? Some of the DSI guys can verify this but I think the DSI's of that era also had the wood 'grate' flooring. Let me know what you find out.

Jim Brown (rasp-at-fusenet.com)

[Guest]

No, Greg's boat is most definitely a DS1 as its class number and age will attest to this.

Only the very early boats had wood plank seats. I think it was from 1957 - 1960 and from what I've heard, and I'm pretty sure they were all "three-digit" (class # less than 1000) boats. George O'Day redesigned the interior somewhere around 1961. He put in fiberglass seats which also served as air tanks for flotation, and removed the flotation that ran up each side of the boat from floor to gunnel. He also added the handy little shelves in the cuddy area at this time, I believe. The area under the rear deck was also opened up and the drain plug was moved from the floor to the transom. The new boat design was slightly lighter and had a few more user conveniences.

One drawback in the new design, self rescuing became much more difficult and for some conditions and light crews it is impossible. Apparently, having the air tanks in the seat was lighter and more convenient (maybe cheaper too), but they do not keep the boat riding as high when it's on its side. Thus, I'm told it's difficult to get enough leverage to right the boat. Some gen 2 DS1 owners add flotation in the seatback area to aleviate this problem. I guess you can't have it all...

There's a 1st gen boat at a sailing club nearby and I tried to buy it when I started my DS hunt, but the owner wouldn't sell even though it's been years since he sailed it. In my opinion, they are the most beautiful Day Sailers ever built, and look so nostalgic and 50's!

Kevin Clark
DS 11791 (a Spindrift DS1)

Kevin Clark (clarkr-at-aud.alcatel.com)

[Guest]

I just recently rescued a Daysailor 1 that has wooden seats. I guess she was built in the late fifties, and you are right she is pretty! She was in rough shape after sitting in a mudpuddle for 5years! I do not have floor boards in mine, but I have removed the foam! It was open-celled and it was soaking wet and weighed 100 lbs! Did you know that they used re-bar (what they use in cement) for support of the cuddy? Yes they molded it inside the edge of the cabin-top! Mine rusted through and blew the fiberglass open. The daysailor 1 of "Miracle"s generation has a centerboard that uses a bronze handle to raise and lower it, and also has a keel-stepped mast. The trim including the splash coamings and boom krutch are mahogany! I also got rid of the plywood and fiberglass kick up rudder and built a new one of solid mahogany. She's sweet! Hope this narrows down the years!

Eric J. Nelson (nelsonjnelson-at-hotmail.com)

[Jon_Blaney]

Anyone have pictures of these wooden seats?

[GreenLake]

Have you checked the Photos on the site? There is a general section, and then there are the users galleries - those are a bit trickier to look through because you have to open each one in turn.

[tc53]

I am the proud owner of an old DS 1, #318. It has wooden bench seats (teak) and no floorboards. Each bench seat rests on, and is screwed into, a teak "shelf" (about 1.5 X 1.5") that runs along the inside of the hull and along the transom compartment. On the forward end, each is secured by a wooden "plate" screwed (from underneath!) into both the bench plank and thwart. On our last sail, the starboard seat separated and came off, with all of these screws pulling out.
I can screw it back in easily enough, but this design seems flawed. With little in the way of vertical support from underneath, sitting on these bench seats will eventually pull the screws out again.

Any repair suggestions or modifications to provide better support?

[GreenLake]

At the minimum, you could "harden" the screw holes by injecting some thickened epoxy and then screwing in just the screw(!) after waxing it. The curing epoxy will form a "tread" around the screw, and the wax will allow the screw to come out again. Thus prepared, you can fix the seats again.

If the holes are too wide to localize the screws well enough, you could wax the seats and do the whole assembly.

Going one size larger (wider) with the screw might not hurt.

[tc53]

Thanks, Greenlake. That sounds like a good plan for the screws. Any thoughts on supporting the bench from below? The 5' span on the 12-13" wide bench, with support only on the "back" (hull side) and fore/aft ends, seems to invite the dislodging that occurred the other day (mid-race!). I was considering one or two short posts made from PVC pipe underneath. Not the most aesthetically pleasing, but it might do the trick.

A more radical solution, in part to address the lack of flotation: I've considered taking out the wood benches altogether and using pour-in-place foam to craft new benches (covered in fiberglass). Have you heard of anyone doing that?

[Baysailer]

There is a 59 DS on Ebay that has some pretty good reference photos for the wood seat

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/17-Oday- ... 2571f67b6d

[GreenLake]

...A more radical solution, in part to address the lack of flotation: I've considered taking out the wood benches altogether and using pour-in-place foam to craft new benches (covered in fiberglass).

I really dislike poured-in foam. It's a one-shot approach. If something doesn't go as you planned, you don't get to do it over. If the foam doesn't behave over its lifetime the way you anticipated it (e.g. gets water soaked) you or the next owner can't inspect or fix things.

There are many older designs of dinghies that don't have flotation tanks molded into the hull. The "standard" method to add flotation there is to use flotation bags - and they are available in various sizes commercially.

They would be held in place with a bit of webbing. for which you would epoxy a few webbing eyes onto the hull underneath the seats. Having the bags exposed allows you to visually inspect them and to be sure that your reserve flotation is functional.

In the center of the inside edge or at 2-3 equally spaced intervals you could add a "post" to support the edge of the seat. PVC is cheap, but you should be able to source a bit of teak for a more pleasing appearance. These posts would help keep the bags in place below the seats.

[Jon_Blaney]

I have been gathering data to use when rebuilding the wooden seats on my early DS1 and found something I had not read. The height of my centerboard case is only about 13" tall and the seat flange is installed so the forward seat goes over the top of the case. All of the pictures I can find has the the seat, in two sections, attached to the case on flanges below the case top.

Anyone with a similar seat arrangement?

[tc53]

I went with three teak "legs," along with all new SS hardware, to repair our detached starboard seat. They look much better than PVC would have, and the seat feels much more solid with this added support. For the time being, we plan to stuff as many pool noodles behind as will fit.

My only mistake was attempting to secure the bottoms of these legs to the cockpit deck with an epoxy paste. This hardened well and all seemed secure until I first stepped on that side the next time we put the boat in the water. As soon as I did that, the two aft legs separated from the hardened epoxy. With an old and not very stiff hull, I should have known better. I will probably add an angle brace, using the same 1X2 teak, behind each leg (up to the seat) and not bother with trying to attach to the deck.