Adjusting new mast stays

[MAXUM]

Guys-

I have a 1970 DS1, posted late last year this boat was undergoing a top to bottom restoration. Well spring has arrived and I started back in on getting the remaining stuff done so she can hit the water. This past weekend I put brand new rigging on the mast, now I find myself scratching my head. The new mast stays that I put on are adjustable, but I have no idea how they should be tensioned. They all have measurement markings on them, so when I put the mast up I adjusted the two side stays so they were equal, the front however if adjusted to the same meaurement mark "length" as the side stays is loose, if I tighten it up enough to keep the slack out it's off the mark assuming they are all supposed to be tensioned equally according to the index marks. So anyone have any ideas how to do this? I'm assuming at this point that the side stays must be equal length and the front well tensioned to where it is no longer loose.

BTW the mast is NOT bent.

[Peter McMinn]

John, I did a little research and found the North Sails DaySailer tuning guide to be informative--actual numbers and stuff. I don't know if it will address your specific questions, but it should send you on your way.

http://www.northsailsod.com/class/daysa ... uning.html

Cheers!

[MAXUM]

Good grief, I had no idea adjusting this stuff was that scientific!

According to this article, it looks like I may be stuck doing any fine tuning until I have the boat in the water and can at sail it a little bit. I expect that I'll have to make a few adjustments as those stays are bound to stretch a bit since they are new. Great information though, at least to start I'll just try to roughly measure the pre-tension on the forestay and snug up the side stays evenly. The good thing is the lower spreaders were in good shape so I did not have to replace them, so that is one less measurement to do. Thanks a bunch for the link.

[captainseasick]

For keel stepped masts, attach a tape measure to the main halyard and adjust only the sides for exact equal length, useing the front bottom part of the chain plate as a guide, Forget the front for now.
take out all slack and snug up the shrouds. hook your trailer winch hook on the jib halyard,, snug it up , AND PULL IT ABOUT 2 more inches. This will make your shrouds very tight. now attach the fore stay and snug it up. release tension from the winch. go sailing. If the boat turns away from the rind when you let go of the tiller sailing close hauled, the fore stay will need to be a bit longer. If the helm of the boat has too much pull on the tiller going to windward the fore stay will need to be a little shorter. Tiny adjustments in fore stay length make fairly big changes in weather or lee helm. You want the mast to be standing straight with the exact measurement side to side, and mild weather helm, with the wires very tight, (about 150 lbs) pull on the winch slowly and carefully, as some of these old boats are no longer strong at the chainplats and will need to be trinforced before proper tuneing is possible.

[calden]

I have an associated question.

I have the old-style spreaders - aluminum tubes that are simply pinned to the spreader brackets and swing freely. I know that the two angles created by the spreader bisecting the mast side space of the shroud are supposed to be equal (according to several tuning guides I've read.) However, once I take the mast down the spreaders sort of wobble about and slide down on the shrouds, and once the mast is restepped I need to poke the spreaders up a bit with the paddle.

Should I wind the tape around the spreader-shroud connection so as to keep the spreaders in the correct place? Or doesn't it really matter that much?

Thanks,
Carlos

[calden]

And another shroud/stay tension question:

I followed the directions on this website:

http://members.tripod.com/~daysailers_c ... guide.html

that indicates:

"To measure the aft rake of your mast, hoist a tape measure on your main halyard and hold it tight at the intersection Of the transom and rear deck. This measurement, without your jib up and your rig set "snug" (that is, with no play in any shroud or forestay), should be 25' 1" to 25' 2". Then hoist your jib through either a magic box, a block and tackle, or using the forestay (as a bow and arrow effect) pull the rig forward to a 25' 4" to 25' 5" measurement at the transom. "

In doing this, my initial snugged-up masthead-to-transom measurement was only 24'6"! I maybe pulled a few more inches with the jib halyard, but still....

Does this indicate anything wrong about the boat? Or is it a normal range of deviation for this measurement? Should I shorten the shrouds a tiny bit?

In having sailed it once, things seemed pretty normal to this newbie sailor, so I can't really tell.

Thanks,
Carlos

[captainseasick]

move the mast butt plate back a tiny bit. This will move the tip of the mast that is 24 feet away a few inches forward which will give you the correct mast rake. If the measurement was too short, that means your mast was raked back a little too far. these small adjustments make big changes in pointing ability and balance of the helm. The Center board is the pivot point. The more of the sails that are in front of the center boars, the more the boat will want to swing away from the wind striking the sails when sailing close hauled. the more wind pushing BEHIND the centerboard, the more the boat will want to pivot into the wind. Small adjustments of the butt position, combined with the FORE STAY length are all that are needed to get good balance. Boats sail best with very slight weather helm. (a little pull into the direction of the wind on the tiller)

[Bob Hunkins]

If you have a deck stepped mast you'll have to shorten the forestay and lengthen the shrouds to get to the right number. Since the mast is hinged it won't matter where your mast butt is. All it does is provide support, whereas with a keel stepped mast the partners act as a fulcrum for the mast to bend against the force of the stays and sails.

[calden]

Thank you both for your responses.

It sounds like those measurement numbers are something to strive for, and it would be worthwhile to try and get them by shortening the forestay and lengthening the shrouds a bit. I can't move the mast butt, nor does it sound like that would effect any change - it's hinged.

Carlos

[michaelyogi]

So here's a question for you all along the same lines as this thread...
I have cobbled together rig on my boat and I'm working with it to bring it back to something like a Daysailer rig. My mast is deck stepped and I have no spreaders. I've ordered spreader brackets from D and R.
My question is this, if the bottom third of the mast is shaped by the leverage/fulcrum of the mast partners/mast butt position, and the middle third is shaped by the spreaders, is there a compromise position for the spreader positiion on the mast for a deck stepped mast? The rules/regs do give a NTE height of 7'8".
This ought to be good for discussion...

[calden]

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

I finished putting my jiffy reefing hardware and grommets on their respective places this week, so this afternoon I set things up in the driveway to try the reefing system. It was quite windy and gusty here in Eastern Washington, so it was actually a good run-through.

When I stepped the mast, I tried your suggestions - loosened the shroud turnbuckles just a bit - maybe half an inch. Then when the mast was up I found the forestay to be way too loose, and it was quite easy to tighten it. It's amazing how much a little shroud/stay adjustment makes up at the masthead! The masthead to transom/deck measurement went from 24'6" to 25', so I was right in a good starting zone for tightening things up.

The reefing system worked wonders, too. It's the Sailrite kit. It's nice they put everything together, but I have some issues with some of the instructions and pieces. No matter - a couple of new eyestraps and I was on my way.

Carlos