Rebel Day Sailer I : Repair and Refit

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby dudleyrome » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:24 pm

yeah those figures dont sound to far off from what i have looked at so far....thanks for the cradle idea i ve seen it done before but it had not crossed my mind. I agree the access hole in the seats does make better sense. reason i say ill probly wait till december is because that is likely to be the next time i can really get a project like this done in one shot. right now our shop is full of .......so many things that it will problem be November before we get really on track. plus we all tend to do lil of nothing in December and most of us have no family out of state or at all so generally we all work on a project car or something at the time. Last winter we completely rebuilt a 2000 Malibu and painted it out side it was about 38 degrees inside the shop we had it at 85 ......painting and putting on nice coat of clear coat in the cold is a pain lol if u dont have heat. Also i do think u make a good point on the test panels. I will probly make a trip up to myrtle beach and to charlestown to vist a few supply places there see what i can find. I know i can order alot online but i find when i can talk face to face with a salesmen who knows the buisness i find out things that are often really helpful. I can understand the risk of cuting out the material now and waiting but i thnk i will stick with that for the moment. I can always use a temporary sealer on the edges to keep the good wood dry for now.. plus i need to get the boat of the trailer its on while the trailer is mine it is not properly set up for the sail boat i need to replace the bunk boards and adjust the rollers. always hate when i get rushed into a situation nothing good comes from rushing. .... as far as the cradel goes im thinking a simple V cradel from the bow in to a spread v in the back i will have to researh to see how effective that will be given that the back of the daysailer is fairly flat. Im also thinking that now would be a great time to inspect the swing board and all its connections lol be a shame to do all this work and take it out to find out that the board is jammed or some other such nonsense. well i will let u know when i get started and load up a few pictures. later
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Postby GreenLake » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:14 am

The DS is pretty flat in the back so your flat V is going to be 90% of what you need for support. Just to be safe, I'd constrain the distance between the rubrails as well somehow...(vertical posts?).

Looks like you are well set up with facilities.

Cutting the inner floor now isn't a bad idea - it might allow drying of whatever areas that are not totally wet, if you find those around the edges of your intended repair area.

But only if you can keep the boat really dry. Inside is best, outside using a double layer of (white) tarp with spacers and lots of ventilation might work.

Good luck, keep us informed.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:19 am

I will add another note of caution about attempting this project. Any boat can be fixed given enough time and money. You already realize that it's going to be a huge project. However on projects like this, whenever you project time, it's pretty safe to double that and also your material expenses. These still might be considered conservative.

It's likely that this boat is already misshapen. If the thwarts have rotted out from sitting out in the weather and the boat has been on the ground and the core is rotten, it's likely to have hogged considerably. Also, you need to determine whether the fiberglass has hydrolyzed (blistering is one of the symptoms).

I think I would 1st determine how straight the hull is. With it still on the trailer, sight from the transom forward and see how it looks. Also, check carefully for blisters in the gelcoat, a symptom of hydrolyzed fiberglass. Another symptom of hydrolyzed fiberglass is when you open up the core or scrape/sand on the fiberglass it stinks like sour raw resin. Hydrolyze fiberglass is much harder to repair than the core.

If you have too many problems with this boat and you really want a DaySailer 1, I would suggest spending time shopping for a better hull. If you spent time and possibly as little as $500-$1500 you might find a boat that doesn't need that much. You could always paint it the color of your grandfather’s boat. It sounds like he was somewhat of a boat collector so he might approve of this method. You could even name the boat after your grandfather. I think it's likely that this would take far less time and cost far less money and might yield a nicer boat.

These comments are from someone who has spent far more time and money on my boat than I ever expected to. Also, it doesn't sound like your boat is in near as good shape as the one I bought for $1000 with a good motor and trailer. I did sail my boat for a season before it decided it was a little soft and decided it needed stiffening up. I'm reasonably handy and I go whole hog into projects so I understand a bit where you're coming from. Still, you might consider your options.

KC
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby dudleyrome » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:52 pm

I posted some pics of the boat. KC i can truly understand where u coming from and other aspects. fortuently for me i have a few contacts that allow me to buy most products like resin etc at cost or a lil bit of a discount the way i look at is this. If i repair this boat and fix the problem and spend 1500 dollars since the boat was given to me in all reality i have a 1500 dollar sail boat with trailer in good solid shape. Now granted i can go out and buy a boat of similar design in better shape but here is the "if" in that situation who is to say what devils lay under the deck of any new demon. Yes i did check and there is some blistering on the fiber glass but im not to worried about that. granted having to do extra work to the hull itself does present some what of a problem since it seems to be localized to the one side of the boat i feel that in all reality the boat is worth repair. I did check the lines and to be honest the boat seems true.
Greenlake this is the idea i think i have come up with for setting the boat up on land again. i am going to take 8 railroad ties cover the tops of each one with carpet. then i will take a 2x4 and come up from the railroad tie kinda like \o/ that then cut anothe 2x4 at a higth to intersect with that other 2.4 and rest snugly uderneath the rub rail with a lil bit of carpet inbetween for rub protection and the other end stuck into the ground with a sand bag or block against it. the 8 ties alow for about 1 1/2 to 2 foot spacing depending on the width of the tie. The sharp angle of bow ill probly make and x brace for it just to try and keep it from moving. fourtuenly for me the many years it sat in my grandmothers yard it was on extremly flat area of ground if the hull had not been damaged i think the boat would still be sound...but there is the catch any boat that hasnt been damaged wouldnt need work.
while i do see alot of what you are saying green lake my friends and i have a rather ingeinious methodolgy about us when we work on projects and we always seem to come up with a failry cost saving method for most any thing. the best thing for me is that since i dont plan on racing or having to have it meet any requirements in the future i can do things that most lets say "honest" sailors wouldnt do in a repair.....hmmmm now were did i put my duct tape......:) lol guys I really apreciate all the good info you have give me so far.depending on how long it takes for me to get my ties we will see when i can start. got make a call to an old friend who works for da railroad.....time to call in a favor lol later
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Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:24 pm

Okay, I just wanted to throw up some caution flags just in case but I understand. I think your idea of suspending the boat by the rails is a good one. That is basically what I did when I did my core project. When you remove the inner skin and the core the fiberglass remaining is going to be pretty floppy. I threw plywood scraps down to walk-on just because I was afraid I might step through after grinding my hull thin to get rid of the hydrolyzed fiberglass.

I think opening up the core and letting things dry out for months is a really good idea. It takes months of hot dry weather to drop the moisture content of hydrolyzed fiberglass.

I used epoxy and it ended up being pretty expensive but worked quite well. LBI my local supplier that also does composite work for government contracts suggested that I should go with vinylester to save money. Defender and Jamestown Distributors were sources that are used. One source that I found, Noah's Marine, had pretty good prices on some things and especially the Core-Cell foam core that I used. http://www.noahsboatbuilding.com/noahus ... sp?url=IND

Here are some links that I found helpful or interesting. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tODrifW6LQQ
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/pdf/core/AdvBagTk.pdf
http://www.lbifiberglass.com/FIBERGLASS/fiberglass.html
http://www.corecomposites.com/media/Cor ... nChart.pdf
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/Upl ... panels.pdf
blister repair
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/03.htm
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/review% ... 20book.htm
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ?docId=290
http://www.hartoftmarinesurvey.com/guide.html
http://westsystem.com/ss/assets/Uploads ... elcoat.pdf
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourse ... repair.htm
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD ... tTRDoc.pdf
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BlisterRepairFail.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BlisterFail2.htm

I mostly ended up using the West System method for the blister repair and so far it's worked fine.

Enjoy the project! One more Daysailer that won't end up being a flower pot.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby dudleyrome » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:52 pm

WOW!!!! appreciate all the info alot!!! Im thinking making a trip to Charleston which is a harbor town near me used to be a navy base there years back......but there are alot of local marine re builders and supply places there not to mention a few boat builders. Thought id run down there and see if i can find one that would let me rummage through the trash so to speak lol. I hate to admit it but if i can save a few bucks by dumpster diving im not above it lol plus i have been meaning to go down there for a while now for some other things ive been wanting...( GREAT SEAFOOD) lol. sorry my stomach just took control of the keyboard i dont know what happened....oddly enough i am more worried about the boom than how much work is ahead of me on the floor......sigh i think i know were the boom is and i have tried five times to find it with no luck.....i think the boom was laid in what was thin a small patch of ivey....but lets just say now the ivey covers 1/2 the yard.......i need a metal detector but alas back to the hull. yeah i thought on how to support the hull for a while and that seemed like a reasonable idea to me. Dumb question but KC do u remember the thickness of the core material u removed? im just thinking that since i may only be doing a partial floor that i should stick with similar material and thickness. as far as the bumps in the gel coat and with possible hydrolyzed fiberglass i have a few ideas on what i may do with those. but i will have to test a few ideas first.
i was also thinking about something Green said about reusing the interior hull peaces again. I dont know how much i like the idea of reusing the hole panels but i was thinking about cutting them down to manageable sections some what smaller than they are and using them reduce the over all amount of new mat layers. If i do that though i am going to make a puzzle so to speak out of them have to number them so i know the order lol.
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Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:26 am

Dudley,

I think I'm beginning to tell what attitude you have towards projects. Come out the other end and have fun, seems a big part of it. With that attitude and some ingenuity, you can't lose.

I think your basic cradle idea is sound, am reading this in a bit of a hurry, but nothing struck me as needing a comment.

I like the fact that K.C. has been playing the bad cop here, a bit (adding some cautionary notes), it's always good to get a range of input, not just a rah, rah chorus. I think I might look over some of his links myself, for my next project, although normally I'm the kind of person who likes to work with a local retailer (and we have a few good ones where I'm at).
Last edited by GreenLake on Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:18 am

On replacing the core, I agree you should use the original balsa. I think it would be easier to not reuse the inside fiberglass. It sounds like it's in bad shape anyway. I used half inch core but you need to and find out what you've got. The balsa that I pulled out was 1/2 inch thick but it was only a stringer 4 inches wide.

You can glue the core down with either sandbags or vacuum bag. You do have to be careful about using sandbags because they can distort the hull and make it lumpy. I used vacuum bagging and a shop vac. It doesn't give you great pressure but it was good enough.
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Re: Rebel Day Sailer I : Repair and Refit

Postby csrguth » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:39 pm

I'm trying to understand the hull construction on my 1980 DS Rebel. I have some soft spots in the starboard side floor. Does anybody have a cross section sketch or pictures of a core or the inside of inspection ports. Here is my floor Image
and
Image
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1980 Rebel, Sail# 11041
Pummakale, Turkish for Cotton Castle
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