Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby K.C. Walker » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:03 am

On my Daysailer 1, like jalmeida51, my coamings are flush with the side decks. Being that I spend 95% of my sailing time sitting on the side decks and hiking out, this is way more comfortable. In addition, I added 1" thick mini cell foam padding to the side decks for even more comfort!

Like Green Lake, I took my floorboards out for refinishing 10 years ago and never put them back. I don't have nonskid, so I always wear rubber booties for traction. I should definitely get around to that. As for keeping stuff dry in the cuddy, I even went lazier then Green Lake. I just threw a couple of shallow lidded bins up there. The stuff in them stays dry and the stuff on top of them mostly stays dry, as well. That's also been about 10 years.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby spoke36 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:38 pm

Plastic bins are a great idea. How do you keep them from sliding around? I assume that you still have the long open bins under the cabin top for thinks like battens, fenders and fire extinguishers plus a sandwich and a bottle/can of your favorite liquid potion.

What is the approximate size of the plastic bins that works for you? I would guess 18 inches x 24 inches x 6 inches. Do you leave the bins in the boat in the off season?

Did you put a reinforcement between the seat and the centerboard trunk? If so, is that a way that you used to keep the plastic boxes out of the area where you have your legs?

If anyone added a brace between the original hollow seats and centerboard trunk, did you cut into the seat and make a cut-out to fit the brace between the seat and the centerboard trunk? All the pictures that I have seen of a DS1 with a brace show what looks like a properly molded area to drop in a brace between the seat and the centerboard trunk. My seats are not factory designed for a brace.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:09 pm

I'll let K.C. respond on the proper use and care of shallow plastic bins.

About "thwarts", that's what these reinforcements are called, if your boat doesn't have them, it is because your CB trunk had some "buttresses" added that are absent in later boats (you might be able to tell whether they are original to your boat or added by a previous owner, but only if, in the latter case, the transition to the CB trunk or hull is of a different quality than similar transitions in your boat).

I find these very convenient for crew to sit on when we are fine tuning boat balance in lighter, or very moderate winds. By sitting on either thwart, the crew can pick the best spot so that their weight lets me lean back to see the tell-tales without heeling the boat to windward. (If they sit on the windward side, in very light winds, that gets a bit in the way of the jib sheet; some of my various crew hate that, others manage fine.

If you wanted to further stiffen your boat, you could add your own. They are attached to the CB with a metal L bracket, and I don't see why you couldn't use the same for connecting them to the seat; you may need to divide the bracket in two and/or bend it a bit beyond 90 degrees because the seat sides aren't plumb, if I recall.

You will have to cut an opening into the front of the seats for an inspection port to be able to position a backing plate for bolting the L bracket, unless you glue it to the seat with epoxy (in which case it needs to have as much area as you can manage). Bolted and glued would be my recommendation as the thwarts will pull on the bracket as the boat flexes in the water.

You may want to cut the inspection ports anyway so you can check for soggy foam under the seat and replace it with pool noodles. For that operation, you need the largest deck plate you can fit. I believe the outer diameter of those is about 1.5" wider than the rated diameter (opening).

If you decide to add thwarts, you need to measure them with the boat in the water; left and right will most likely not be the same length - you'd be amazed how loose the "tolerances" were in building these boats :). The hull will open up when supported on a trailer and close up a bit on the water, so you need to measure the latter.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:17 pm

About flush coamings: I left mine original. I don't sit on the rail as often as K.C. (because we are blessed/cursed with more light-wind days). When I do, I manage to fit somehow, but I also don't attempt to hike with my butt hanging over the side. If we had different sailing conditions, I would do things differently, perhaps. Hence my advice to make modifications like that after you've sailed your boat for while.

I did make some closed-cell foam "cushions" (closed-cell foam blocks that are as high as the height of the coamings above the side decks) but I don't use them most of the time. Really only if I'm out on some longer cruise with an upwind leg measured in hours rather than minutes. For an evening race on the lake, I don't bother.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:40 am

I think the bin the size I have is pretty close to what you have in mind. I don't do anything special to keep them from shifting around. When I first threw them in I thought I would, however, they seem to stay put fine. I just shove them up near the forward bulkhead. The shape of the hull keeps them up against the keelson, and that seems to be enough to keep them in place. I have a couple of large water-resistant duffel bags for lifejackets and foul weather gear that I throw on top of those. The miscellaneous stuff seems to stay high enough not to get wet. That leaves just enough room to throw sail bags on top of the pile when I leave the boat at the dock for extended periods. It's not perfect, but good enough that I haven't found the need to improve on it.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:57 am

I started racing Wednesday nights a couple of years ago. The races start about 6 PM. I'll inevitably go down to get warmed up for the race an hour early and there will be a nice breeze… Only to turn into a drifter for the race. I use a Sunfish for that race series. I glued closed-cell foam on the deck of that boat, as well as putting it on the cockpit floor. It's way more comfortable for sitting still, as well as for hiking out.

I was up on Lake Winnipesaukee with the Daysailer for the last couple of weeks. We had some really nice wind. I went out with each one of my kids (adults) for some super sailing. We would work our way upwind through the islands reefed, and then put up the "big sail" (Doyle UPS) for the downwind ride. We were hiked out horizontal with our feet in the toe strap. We had full out planing. It felt like a giant windsurfer! Lots of abs work, though!
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby GreenLake » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:43 am

The usual around here is that the wind drops a notch punctually with the start gun. On a good day, I manage to get on the water an hour before the start, but some of that time is simply sailing to the start. If there's a good breeze, there may be time to do a small loop beforehand or to try out some points of sail (always good with the newbie crews). The DS isn't competitive in a no-handicap event, but I can usually tell whether I sailed it to its capabilities. Planing has been elusive. (We get our best winds in the winter, and I'm, well, just a bit cautious when the water is cold - not the time I'm comfortable pushing the envelope). Hence the lack of serious hiking. . .

That said, our race would allow me to bring a UPS, because class-rules don't apply. I've been tempted for a number of years, but the need to make modifications to the boat and the fact that it's a bit of big-ticket items have ruled it out so far. Perhaps when time and budgets provide a window at the same time.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby K.C. Walker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:31 am

That sounds about right! Our last Wednesday race of the season the wind dropped to a true drifter at the start gun… And then it picked up just as I was crossing the finish line. Our races are handicapped, so the slow boats that were still on the course won the day!

My UPS set up would give you a serious leg up. In light air, I can often pass catamarans! Well… Not the ones that have drifters.

Last year I took up Frostbiting in the Sunfish both last fall and this spring. We were able to get nine boats together on some days, and some really good sailors. I learned so much! A wetsuit or drysuit was mandatory in the rules and a good thing. After the first capsize, I became a lot more confident. The wetsuit really made the shock of going in cold water not bad, and the Sunfish is easy to get back up, even from a turtle. I've capsized five times during the two race seasons. A couple of the sailors are so good I've seen them capsize just before the start, like within the last minute, and still win!
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby GreenLake » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:46 pm

I do have a wetsuit, including a cold-weather top for it, but I'm not keen to try capsize recovery with a DS in winter :)

The winter races are also not handicapped and the one time where I was the 4th and last boat to make it across the finish line in the time limit was priceless! After half an hour of very patient ghosting, barely breathing, so as not to disrupt the flow over foils and sails. That was on one of our sunny and almost warm winter days - we get those, too.

My secret weapon when I'm soloing is "Mr. Bungee" my tiller tamer. By not holding the tiller in light airs, but only occasionally setting it to a different location on the bungee, I cut out a lot of disturbance that kills you in very light airs. The minute I have crew and hand steer, that advantage is gone and its noticeable (but so is the additional drag from crew weight and their movements).

UPS definitely on my list. What wind angles is it best at? Our local conditions seem to gravitate to four different wind directions, with nothing much in-between. DDW, broad reach, close reach and true up-wind. Broad reach and DDW are the two end-points of the symmetric spinnaker range, and there's rather little in the middle; often these two transition into each other on the same leg, and the shore allowing gybing downwind to only one side of the course. I find that in many conditions I'm just as fast sailing the shortest distance (with my current sails).

With a sail that would allow reaching closer, it might pay to gybe into the middle of the lake, with the spinnaker, I would have to take it down when I hit the windshift. Occasionally we have one of the upwind legs turned into a (close) reach. If the UPs can be set for such a course (or one that ends up just a bit lower than the mark) it could be that boat speed would make a difference. I find that my boat speed currently is competitive to the other boats when sailing slightly "free", and that I fall behind on the other points of sail. (During spinnaker runs I can keep up with some types of boats, but that depends a bit on conditions).
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:32 am

I have definitely watched myself slip behind in ghosting conditions by being too twitchy on the sunfish. And… I would not want to try capsizing a Daysailer at any point!

My UPS is approximately 120 ft.². It's great upwind but it won't pinch. The extra speed definitely makes up for it, though. In approximately a 5 kn breeze, upwind, I'd already be sitting on the side deck. In ghosting conditions, I'll do the sit on the leeward side thing. It's 1.5 ounce cloth so it doesn't take much to get it lifted. I've got it on a small roller furler, so jibing is something I can do single-handed. In light air, because of apparent wind, it can sail a pretty deep broad reach.

The polar pattern on it is amazingly versatile. http://doylecaribbean.com/our-sails/dow ... ower-sail/. I have a whisker pole for it but I've only used it a couple of times for DDW. In a long distance race I did use it with the pole set wing on wing. It still felt faster to sail small angles. But I would have to experiment more to be sure.
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Re: Cockpit trim question (cut or remove)

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:24 pm

Those polars look darn attractive.
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