New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:21 pm

GreenLake wrote:Last picture: outhaul - looks rigged fine, needs to be tight in higher winds to flatten the foot of the sail.

PS: you sure that you have the boat pointed the right way for a "tractor pull" ? :D :D


:lol: that poor tractor does alot for me,including moving the boats around the yard,and helps hold the trailer down so that im able to walk to the rear whithout popping a wheelie.

and thank you for all the info,im still learning the terms and names.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby Brianl289 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:08 am

Thanks for posting those pictures, that was extremely helpful for rigging. It's amazing how difficult its been to find solid photos online of how to set the boat up.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:49 pm

No problem....im still learning.
Gonna figure out the traveler next.ill be sure to post up.
Its hard to locate good clear rigging pictures.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:53 pm

Taking good pictures can be a challenge. Nick's boat has rather complete rigging, which makes it interesting.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby RobH912 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:19 pm

igotit wrote:Its hard to locate good clear rigging pictures.


Thanks for posting the rigging pictures.
Rob


DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:01 pm

RobH912 wrote:
igotit wrote:Its hard to locate good clear rigging pictures.


Thanks for posting the rigging pictures.


my pictures really arent that great,but with the help of other members explaining everything.......guess it all comes together.just shows the lack of good rigging diagrams.with that said theres really alotta ways to rig,not just a single right way.mostly what works for you is what i gather.but its good to know that my rig seems to be complete as greenlake pointed out.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:27 am

There are about four basic ways to rig the mainsheet at the end of the boom.

  1. Split tail mainsheet. You splice two lines at the end of the mainsheet so they each go to a standup block then come together through a double-sided cheek block and off to a cleat. You can pull the combined end to affect the size of the triangle formed. Has some advantages in the way it functions as traveler, but offers no mechanical advantage (purchase).
  2. A triangle formed by the mainsheet. Main runs to one standup block, across the transom, back up to the boom from the other standup block. Not adjustable, but pull is always more sideways than if the main simply went to the middle of the transom. There's an effective mechanical advantage, but it's less than 2:1 because the two parts don't pull in the same direction.
  3. A single "wire" from side to side along which there is a block that can run from side to side. Mainsheet is either terminated there, or there's a second block attached, so the mainsheet can make a U-turn back to the end of the boom for mechanical advantage. Effect is that the pull is more down than sideways. Really doesn't make much sense, unless there's a separate line to fix the block's position on the wire.
  4. Adjustable triangle. Separate line that forms a triangle, with a block tied to the apex. Mainsheet does a U-turn in that block and goes back to the end of the boom (more precisely to a becket on the block that at the end of the boom).
    There are two variants:
    1. the two free ends of the triangle come together in the middle of the transom, turned forward 90 degrees in a double-sided cheek block and then cleated together. Allows adjusting the height of the triangle, but the block is always above the center of the transom (or close to). It's closest to the split mainsheet setup, except it does have the mechanical advantage (but the effective height of the triangle is a bit less - with the relatively high boom of the DS, perhaps not that much of a difference).
    2. the two ends of the triangle are tied together with a knot that also leaves a loop. The loop goes over a hook to center the block over the transom (upwind) or can be released to allow the block to travel to one side (downwind). (That is the setup I have and the adjustment is optional, i.e. downwind sailing is fine even if you forget to release the traveler)
    Both variants offer 2:1 mechanical advantage

Note that any mechanical advantage at the end of the boom counts double compared to a multipart center-boom mainsheet. So a 2:1 at the end is like a 4:1 in the middle. But you also pull on the center-boom block as well, when you have a traveler, so you get 5:1. Which is plenty.

Now, the question is: which setup do you have the parts for, and / or which setup appeals to you?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 am

No matter how you rig the traveler, do upgrade to a ratchet block for the block that's located center-boom. Make it a grippy one with a good auto-release (when running free/low pull). At the time I was on the market that was the Ronstan 55 by a mile, it's been a few years, others may have caught up.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:09 am

All very good info,and great explination.
In a few days ill look at what ive got and try to utilize my parts....moneys tight.
The big block on the rear of my trunk has a button/knob,when turned the sheve ratchets in 1 direction when turned back the sheve free spins....is this what your describing i need?
Ill google the ronstan 55
Edit
Wow thats pretty neat auto ratchet under tension.
https://youtu.be/-OMfBTHN5SI
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:50 am

Looks like you have a manual ratchet. As long as you remember to disengage it in light airs and re-engage it otherwise, it should give you some benefit (may not be as grippy and convenient as that orbit series with the auto ratchet, but you can always upgrade later).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:55 am

the traveler
ive reassembled the traveler as it was when i bought the boat.....with the exception of running the rope differently.
best i can tell i have it 5:1 .2:1 on the rear of the boom and a 3:1 in the center......5:1 total.
whats yall thoughts.....is it right or wrong.
if it doesnt look right....please correct me,i rigged it the way comon sense told me.......but im not familiar with sailing or rigging.

Image20200711_224511 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200711_224518 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200711_224526 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr

not sure what these blocks are used for,but reinstalled where they were.
Image20200711_230009 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
and these blocks and cam cleats.....block are for jib sheets (didnt install jib cam cleats yet)cleats pictured are for something else.....maybe spinnaker or genoa?
Image20200711_232914 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:40 am

You got a 3:1 mid boom plus a 2:1 end boom, that's like a 7:1 mid-boom. Should make it easy to play the main in high winds.

Where the two blue lines meet in the middle of the transom, I have a hidden "hook" on the back of the wooden coaming and I can arrest the traveler by hooking the knot over it.

To do that, the knot needs to not only tie the two ends together, but also have a loop into which you can place the hook. I guess, if you used two bowlines to tie the ends of the traveler together you could use one of their loops for it. I solved it differently, by doubling one of the ends and then tying a sheet bend with the doubled end (so there's a loop sticking out of the knot, instead of a free end). Needs a bit of thinking how to tie it the first time, but works well for the purpose. (don't have a picture of that knot yet - it's always hidden behind the transom coaming :) ).

Back to your setup. Looks like you are good to go.

The blocks at the back are for a spinnaker. As are the blocks and cleats on the forward side decks. The spinnaker sheets run from the clew on the sail to the back of the boat, forward along the side deck and get cleated there.

For the jib sheets, there should be some tracks somewhere. (I'll look back over your pictures to see whether I can spot where they go).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:00 am

Jib sheets and barber haulers.

I've looked over the pictures in your old posts and am puzzled about where the jib is sheeted. See first picture from this post:
Image

I see a blue line that goes across and is cleated below the coaming. It is not clear to me where that connects. Some people have their spinnaker sheets below deck, but the blocks for yours seem to keep the spinnaker sheets above the deck. So perhaps that line is for something else. If it goes somewhere we can't see in the pictures you'd need to give some more info.

At about the same location there are cleats on top of the deck. I suspect that those are for the spinnaker, not the jib, because they are placed too far back for a standard sized jib (unless yours extends much past the mast). The normal setup on DS1 would be a set of short tracks like these, on the inside of the coamings:
1818946
In the first picture, you can see where these tracks extend a bit forward of the seat tanks (red). You can see that the standard sheeting position is much further forward from the cleats that are on your decks (hence my assumption that those are for the spinnaker). If true, your boat would be missing the jib fairleads and cleats. I do see the two small black V cleats for the barber haulers on the edge of the cuddy top. Those should contain a line that ends in a block, through which the jig sheet runs, so you can pull it further inboards when sailing upwind (about 6" inboard of the coamings in nice winds in the +-10 knots range, less in either lighter or stronger winds).

But, unless your jib is oversized, your fairleads need to be near the forward edge of where I'm showing this for the track (or on a track that allows them to be brought back). If they are in the correct position, your jib will "break" evenly, that is, when you luff up, it will start bulging inwards a bit, but evenly across its height, indicating that the entire jib was trimmed right.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:13 am

I didnt install the jib cleats yet,and i have 2 v blocks that go on the cabintop .thats about all i have left to install.

The blue rope you see cutting across runs to the traveler rope system below deck.its a complicated rope n block setup thats hard to capture in picture.ill try to come up with a drawing to show whats goin on with that.
But below the coaming,each side of the blue rope runs thru a cam cleat.if i uncleat both ends of the blue rope,and pull on either strb or port of that rope,it will slide the loop of my rear traveler over.

and i do have 2 short ropes with blocks attached,im assuming these go into the v block that i didnt install back on the cabin top yet,and serve as the jib sheet fairleads that you mentioned.
Last edited by igotit on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 am

ill explain the best i can,i dont know what everything is called.please correct me if ive explained wrong,or if you need more clarification.this setup may be common,but all new to me.
more on the below deck traveler setup.best i can tell this allows me to walk the rear travelers loop over to give the boom an even pull on both lines while sailing.
starting with mast centered,both under deck midship traveler ends cleated.the rear traveler loop centered conects to these 2 center blocks,then runs thru to rear deck upto the boom.
Image20200712_092212 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
below deck port stern
Image20200712_092222 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
below deck port midship
Image20200712_092228 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
strb side is a mirror image of port.
if i make no adjustments to the midship(center blue rope) and leave both sides cleated below coaming,the rear traveler when boom is over the side only pulls on 1 of the rear loop lines.
if i uncleat the midship of the blue line i can simply pull on the blue line and walk the loop over to either side of the boat to allow an even pull on the rear loop.might i ad the midship below deck blue line automaticaly cleats itself (if i uncleat and adjust)when tension to the rear loop is applied via boom/wind.
center cleated
Image20200712_092827 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
center adjusted and cleated....see the difference in the loop.
Image20200712_092434 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
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