Two-piece mast?

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Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:46 pm

jonnycat wrote:Thanks Greenlake. I did check out the EP Carry when Tom mentioned it, but that price tag! Was able to find some used trolling motors on the local Craigslist though, which is what I will most likely go with (along with a paddle). I do have your Basic Concepts page bookmarked, lots of good stuff in there!

Yeah, I hear you, I saved up for that EP Carry. One thing at a time and trolling motors are really the cheapest option.

I'll plan to make a few additions to the Basic Concepts over time, so check back occasionally.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby tomodda » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:44 pm

Yeah, I blew a Xmas bonus on mine two years back. AFTER getting permission from The Other Half. Of course, this year my Xmas bonus will be "You still have a job." And that's only if I'm lucky. :|

Sigh, can always go sailing! :)
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:05 pm

Hi Tom, thanks for that, I really do appreciate it. The boat is ~300 miles from me, but I will inspect the boat and trailer before I take possession.

I know I will have to resurface the trailer once I get it home, but I do have a couple of grinders and might think about a blaster if my compressor can keep up. I'll be putting in an LED light kit as well; I'm a BIG fan of having a well-lit trailer.

Holding both sheets in hand (or at least them main) and not cleating them down is crucial. That allows you to "ease-hike-trim" as Gl explains in his guide.


I didn't see that in his guide, what the URL for that?
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:50 pm

Jonny, It's mentioned in the topic "Gusts and lulls".

BTW: +1 on what Tom writes about having (even a minimally experienced) crew.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:24 pm

Ah, there it is, thanks Greenlake.

I'm going to cash in my dumb question of the month coupon if you don't mind. When I am looking at rigging, I see references to both a "spinnaker control (system)" and the jib controls. Since my boat uses a jib (and not a spinnaker), what constitutes the "spinnaker control (system)" vs the jib controls?
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:44 am

Jonny, it's not an either-or. All DSs are set up for main and jib. Some are set up to use a spinnaker as well (a jib is for upwind sailing and useless for downwind sailing, that's where the spinnaker comes in).

If you don't have a spinnaker sail or the fittings, pole and lines to run one, all that stuff can be retrofitted quite easily. Not much of what you learn in operating a main and jib will translate, but figuring out how to run a spinnaker is not that hard and will reward you with a more exciting sailing experience when sailing downwind (you know, away from the wind, when it can feel like it's not blowing at all because the faster you sail, the less apparent wind there is ...).

A spinnaker helps by
  1. being larger than the jib and cut from lighter cloth, and
  2. by being set on a pole so that you can bring it out of the wind shadow of the main.

You can read all the details here. And when you have a boat, and know her well, and...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:36 am

Nice, thanks Greenlake, I didn't know if it was a collective term for part of the existing (when you don't have a spinnaker) rigging or not. My main curiosity came from looking at the DS rigging diagram on the Harken website (https://www.harken.com/DeckLayout.aspx?id=50141), but not having a spinnaker I will safely ignore that system for now.

BTW, on that diagram, the spinnaker sheets are blue (on port and starboard), while the jib lines are green, yes? Also the beige lines are the mainsheet, but what about the red one?
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:40 pm

Barber in-haulers.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:03 pm

Thanks Greenlake, on a "stock" setup for a DS1, are the barber in-haulers part of the rigging?

Speaking of rigging, is there a diagram somewhere that details the different trim adjustments available in the cockpit on a stock DS1? I have read the DS1/Javelin manual from Oday, and it just shows the mainsheet and the jib sheets; are those the only two trim adjustment options available in the cockpit on a stock DS1?

A couple of other questions:

Are dock bumpers necessary, or are the rubrails sufficient?
The manual calls for using "outboard motor transom plates", but I can't find any description of these. Are they just two plates, one fore and one aft of the transom? How are they held in place?

Thanks again for helping with my questions, it is really helping me with the gaps in my knowledge.
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby tomodda » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:50 pm

Rub rail is all you need for docking. You'll want fenders if you're regularly tying off to other boats (rafting), which is unlikely - I've done it once in 2 years.

Yeah, you'll want to re-enforce the transom with some plywood, glassed in, if you hang a heavy engine back there (5hp? something like that). Why would you? Trolling motor is fine or a 2.5hp which will drive the boat just fine, clamped between the transom and the outboard well in the back deck. But someone else who does more motoring than I can probably give you a better answer. Still, I wouldn't sweat it and wouldn't get a big engine. The ONLY exception is if you have a long way to travel before hitting sailable open water, then you may want some hp to keep the transit from being a total drag. Just don't forget, the hull speed on the DS ain't that much - 5.6 knots, to be exact - so higher horsepower just gives you a bigger bow wave. Yes, you can plane this boat with a bigger outboard, but good luck steering it!
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:57 pm

On some docks you'll need fenders, but not if the dock is of the "smooth wall" type at the height of your rubrails.

For those difficult docks I have a few 8" diameter fenders, although you can get away with one 12" tied at the windest beam and a line fore and aft to "balance it around that fender. (Not for overnight etc. but can work well with an odd dock).

For docks that are just platforms and are partially "above" the DS's stern, I found some that are L shaped. Work really well. Buy them as you need them. Boat first :)

I put some bits of carpeted plywood between the outboard clamp and the transom, for some load distribution and to prevent scratches (for my low-power electric motors).

Looking at the stock configuration for rigging (or options) is an amusing diversion (peruse the history section for some clues). But it isn't of practical concern, because almost all DSs of a certain have been modified by their owners in some way.

Barber haulers, look them up here in the forum, are useful for improved upwind sailing, but you would need to retrofit them (not difficult or expensive). Look them up here.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:03 pm

Thanks Tom, I'm only looking to dock up to the dock for now, hadn't thought about other boats, but if that time comes I'll get a bumper or two.

Not looking to get an OB right now (those 2.5 Suzukis are pretty nice though), but I'll try to pick up a used trolling motor locally. The manual mentions to use the transom bracket, so even with a small motor I dont want to damage the boat (I am assuming it is a typical fiberglass/plywood sandwich and not hollow). I did come across one image of what looks maybe what the manual is talking about (forgot to save the image though), it was what looked like an upside-down "U" on the transom centered with the motor well, maybe that was what the Oday manual was referring to?
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby GreenLake » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:11 am

For a trolling motor, you really only need something to prevent scratching up the transom. On my trolling motor I glued furniture pads onto the clamping surfaces. That worked well. The EP Carry didn't have a flat spot as it's two separate narrow clamps, really, so I made as set of two pieces of plywood with a layer of fuzzy tape, held together by a strip of fabric and I drape that over the place where I clamp the motor so as to not damage the paint work. You won't need anything more, no matter what some manual says :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:06 am

Okay good, thanks Greenlake.
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Re: Two-piece mast?

Postby jonnycat » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:11 am

GreenLake wrote:Barber in-haulers.


Thanks Greenlake, on a "stock" setup for a DS1, are the barber in-haulers part of the rigging? I don't see a reference to those in the manual.
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