The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

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The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby thoughtfulreef » Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:37 am

Hello!

I recently acquired a DS 1 from 1965, Hull # 11705. It came to me this spring from the original owner who had the record of buying it from a dealer in 1965 in San Francisco! Fun!

The old boat has many repairs to be done and I'm so glad to have found the wealth of information on this forum. Thank you for previous posts and in advance to all the knowledgeable contributors!

Like many other people who've posted here with boats new to them, I'm sailing this summer. I'm doing jobs that must be done, getting to know the boat and planning bigger jobs for the colder months. I could use a little help prioritizing all the work to be done. I'm handy but have never repaired fiberglass, never put down gel coat, and I'm now realizing I don't know much about working correctly with epoxy.

But I cant yet ask for help with what to do first because I need to tackle a question that has me anxious. I noticed a leak from my centerboard handle gasket. I keep the boat on a trailer at the moment and launch to sail for a day or two at a time. The leak was slow and I've read in the forum how this might be addressed: Gently tighten the screws mounting the handle, lubricate the gasket, or order a replacement gasket. Well I tightened the screws and now noticed a slow leak from the lower aft screw, maybe this was present previously or perhaps not. So far I cant say for sure if its from the screw hole or an adjacent very small (and hopefully superficial) crack.

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How should I proceed? If I cover the crack with epoxy and this does stop the leak, it seems I may be covering up a real problem as water leaks into the area and degrades the fiberglass?

How likely is it that the leak is from the screw hole itself? I read a post where someone describes such a leak but thought it was an aberration as the screws are normal set into the fiberglass of the CB trunk and end before entering the CB compartment. I havn't tried adding anything to the screws threading yet. What should i use if that is an avenue to try?

How likely is this to get worse if I go out sailing under the stress of the centerboards movement?

Thanks again for any help!
Last edited by thoughtfulreef on Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:16 pm

Welcome to the forum!

Nice to have a clear idea who owned your boat.

First, I want to put your mind at ease. Unless you keep your boat unattended at a mooring, the leak should be something to watch and monitor but nothing threatening. DS1 CB leaks tend to be slow.

Gaskets age and you want to replace them every few years. DR Marine sells them specifically for the DS. You could try to find something in the right size at a store, if you are in a hurry, but while they are not made in any special way, the dimensions are not the ones I've seen stocked in my H/W store.

1042

My DS has a retrofit so there's a gasket on both sides. Above is what they look like eventually, when you forget to replace them!

For the leak around the screw. I think that's something you can defer to your maintenance season, but it's your decision, not mine. I would ascertain from peeking into the CB slot from below whether the inside wall has any obvious cracks. Water must be getting at the screw from somewhere. Depending on what you find, you may need to take some remedial action (with boat off the trailer and CB removed). Otherwise, I'd disassemble the CB lever holder and check what the screw screws into.

The DS1 has some places where a backing plate has been glassed in, for various machine screws to screw into. Check whether that is the case. If so, your best bet might be sealing the screw where it exits. (It needs to remain removable for gasket replacement, so stay away from 3M 5200).

As long as the screw isn't in danger of popping out, making the whole diameter a leak or there is a bad crack working its way through from the inside of the trunk, I think all of this can be dealt with when you go over your boat after the season. But, again, you're the one to make that determination.

And, finally, are you sure the leak is from the CB and not water running down the assembly from the normal source of CB leaks, which is the handle itself?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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after the first problem

Postby thoughtfulreef » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:06 pm

Thanks so much for the reassurance!

I've ordered a new gasket and when it arrives I'll take apart the CB handle apparatus and get some more information. Its possible the water could just be coming from the handle. It would have to be running from the handle to the plate and over to the screw and only be dripping form the one screw, so that wasn't my first thought. But I'm not sure. There is also a leak that comes from under the gasket so not sure if that indicates one thing or the other. I'll post what I find when I take it apart and any new questions that come up.

In the mean time I'm building a motor bracket off the transom. I realize this will move weight further back which is not desirable but its for a small electric trolling motor so I"m hoping this will be negligible. I'm planning on running some wire to keep the very heavy lead acid battery near the foot of the mast as has been recommend on this forum. The goal of the bracket is to keep the motor throttle etc away from the running rigging. It has been in the way when the motor was bracketed onto the well.

My question is regarding materials for this project and in up coming projects. The boat had 3 holes drilled though the transom to the well when I acquired it.

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I may have to drill 2 new whole and plug up one of the existing ones. I imagine i'll need to coat the inner aspect of the holes in epoxy of some kind. I've also seen other folks here mention coating wood they've added to their boats in epoxy.

What products should I be using for coating wood, filling holes, lining holes, and sealing screws for that matter? And where should I look to buy them? (I'm in Portland OR, so some marine and construction stores in the area). If there are good guides elsewhere online for this question that would be helpful. All I'm finding are specific companies advertising their products so its a little hard to sort out.

I'm also looking to sooner than later coat the interior in gel coat and some exterior gel coat touch ups. Which products should I be looking for? Is it useful to get the gel coat without the wax for multiple coats and then add the wax for the final coat?

Thanks!
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:13 pm

For gelcoating the interior, I used Evercoat gelcoat with the wax. I did a post a couple of years ago on the details, that should have a product name in it, but some online search might locate what you need. I had to do more than one coat, not for buildup, but to cover a few spots that didn't come out perfect on first try. I didn't try to switch between the types.

For epoxy I use SystemThree products. If you plan to do future work, just get some bottles of their SilverTip, you can store it between use. The GelMagic, in the self-mixing cartridge isn't quite as good in wetting out, but should still work to seal, or even laminate in a pinch. In many ways the fact that it's non-sagging and comes in that cartridge might make it a useful addition to your 'toolkit'.

If I have to order something, I usually check whether things are carried by Fisheries Supply. I like to support places that are not national chains, if you know what I mean.

A good coating on any bolt holes is essential. If there's a gap, between transom and motor well wall, perhaps insert a tube or something and fix with epoxy.

Good luck with the CB gaskets. As long as the gaskets aren't aged out, I'm content to use a sponge to catch a slow drip, instead of constantly trying to maximally tighten them. Again, unless you keep your boat on a mooring.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard handle area le

Postby thoughtfulreef » Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:50 pm

Quick update here, while I'm still waiting for the centerboard gasket to arrive, I got under the boat and was able to get a good photo of the inner starboard aspect of the CB trunk near the handle. There are a number of other problems I discovered but there dont seem to be any cracks there. The only entrance for water is through the handle through hole as far as I can tell. I'll write more after I take it apart and follow up here with my other center board issues. More to come.

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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:08 pm

OK. Then with some 90% probability the leak at the screw is water finding some alternate route from the hole. Seems more likely that that route is outside rather than between layers of laminate, but water does what it does. Once you got the handle sealed, if that location is the only one still leaking, we can speculate more.

Glad to hear that you don't have a crack in the CB trunk.

Looking forward to what other issues you may find, and perhaps to find out how the new motor bracket turned out.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby jfsopko » Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:09 pm

I am new to this forum and also a new owner of a Spindrift DS 1 with similar problems so I find this discussion very interesting and educational. But I have an additional problem with my centerboard - namely, it fails to lock down when sailing and pops back into the trailering position when sailing. The only way I am certain the board is in its "sailing" position is to swim underneath the boat and push it forward by hand or foot. Can anyone suggest what I can do? I plan to buy the gaskets as suggested which I hope handles the leak but don't know where to start on this situation which makes me a bit nervous when sailing. Thanks, also, I am trying to learn how to navigate this site so bear with me if there are already some answers to my questions. - John
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 27, 2022 4:38 pm

John, welcome to the forum. There are two scenarios that come to mind and I can't decide from your post which one you are thinking of. On a DS1 with a lever, the CB is held down by friction and the CB position corresponds to the the lever position - or it should, in any case, more about that later.

If there's not enough friction, then the CB will be pushed up by dragging through the water at speed. This can be fixed by tightening the CB gasket (and/or getting a new gasket if there's no more room for adjustment). On the original DS1s that was done by tightening the three screws that hold the CB lever.

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Now, the way the CB lever stays locked in position relative to the CB is that the lever is attached to a square peg and the CB has a square hole.

Two things can happen: one is that either the hole in the CB, or the peg becomes round. At which point the lever can move w/o the CB moving. Sometimes, it's just a matter of excessive play, but other times it can get so bad the CB swings freely. There's also the variant where the peg is not squared off for the entire length and the CB is able to slide off to the part that's round. (More on that later).

The fix for excessive play is to remove the CB from the boat by "careeningit" and removing the CB handle assembly to remove the peg (and attached handle). Usually it's the hole that's become round. If so, you can shim it with a bit of metal. There may be some metal embedded already, usually bronze, so it's a good idea to match like-for-like (to cut down on galvanic corrosion).

I beat some silicone bronze washers into a rough angle and used two of them to line the hole. That worked for a number of season. There's still some play, but it's way less.

If the CB slides off the square portion of the peg, you may be able to shim it. My boat has an aftermarket fix applied: the opposite end of the CB peg has been drilled to take a bolt. That way, the CB peg is supported on both ends (and the pressure of the bolt pulls together the two sides of the CB making sure that the slot doesn't become so wide as to allow horizontal play). Drilling and tapping the peg is something for a machine shop, but it's something that had been done to my boat and it has worked fine for many, many seasons for me.

Here's what the reverse (non-handle) side of my CB trunk looks like (w/ bolt and gasket removed).

1042

Your DS1 is a bit more recent than mine. Let us know if there are significant changes in some detail. Also, I encourage you to look through all the old posts. You may find quite detailed discussion of the issues I summarize here.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby jfsopko » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:28 pm

Thanks for the quick response. I will try the new gaskets first and see if that fixes the leak as well as the positioning of the CB. Just a quick question, can you replace the gaskets with the boat in the water or will everything just fall out?
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby jalmeida51 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:54 pm

I used to own a Daysailer1 built by Rebel/ Spindrift it was a 1981.
My c/b would droop about a foot out of the c/b trunk with the handle in the fully up position
Pulled the old board out and the square hole was badly worn and the square peg on the handle was badly rounded.
Replaced the board & handle along with the round gasket. Got the parts from D&R Marine.
The new handle handle had the square peg, but it came with a round peg next to the square peg.
The square peg was about a 1/16 of an inch longer. measured the length of the old peg and cut the new peg to the old peg's length.
I believe D&R gets their handles from C.C. Shipbuilding and on their boats use the round peg to help support the c/b.
I greased the gasket with waterproof grease. but I always had a few drops of water when the board was down but up no drops.
I would not change the gasket in the water. The board might get cocked or drop out of the c/b trunk.
Easiest way pull the boat get it on its side or get the boat on jack stands high enough to drop the the c/b.
You control the leakage with the 3 screws on the bronze plate that hold the handle in.
If you tighten the screws too much the c/b might not drop down too little you will get leaks around the gasket.
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby jfsopko » Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:15 pm

Again, thanks for the quick response. But one another question. When you had your Spindrift, which way did you push the lever for raising it for trailing or lowering it for sailing. I am wondering if the guy who sold it to me gave me the wrong directions or I heard him wrong. There is nothing in the Day Sailer1 owners manual. Thanks again, John
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby jalmeida51 » Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:17 pm

Hello,

To raise the c/b you pull the handle up. With the c/b up the handle should be 90 degrees to the c/b trunk. To drop the c/b all the way down you pull the handle down all the way. The handle will be 180 degrees to the c/b trunk. You can raise the C/b between these positions with the handle. Or lower it. It should stay in the down position you select with the right tension on the 3 screws that hold the c/b handle in.

John
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Re: The first problem on my DS 1: centerboard troubles

Postby LGsailer » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:02 pm

Just wanted to post this thread in case it helps - I struggled with some major centerboard problems last year. Specs and my fix outlined here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6238

I personally think that the modification "pin" that goes through the trunk on greenlake's rig is a better design option and should have been like that!
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