Can hull damage from a trailer be fixed?

[kharder]

Hi everyone,

I've been hunting for a daysailer and reading all the knowledge on this forum. I've found an interesting boat for sale and i need all your advise.

It's a 1969 DS1 in absolutely original condition and totally complete being sold by an old O'day employee who has been maintaining it. Original hand worked sails (i know their going to be tired but the workmanship is awesome), all the original cleats and hardware, etc. The standing rigging has been replaced but the running rigging will need updating.

So here's the problem, it has been sitting on a bad trailer and the bottom of the hull is pushed up near the aft end of the centerboard trunk. It's a little hard to see in the picture but very obvious in person that there is a reverse curve in those stringers.


Here is another view showing the trailer bunk which runs athwartship.



It looks like there is a small crack near the centerboard handle because of this flexing.


When we lifted the transom the hull fell back into place a few inches and the owner swears it will all pop back into place when it's in the water. I'm pretty skeptical of that and think the stringers will need to be ground out and re-glassed to pull the bottom of the hull back into shape. Everything else looks flawless and needless to say I'd be getting a new trailer and fitting it properly.

How bad will this be to fix and should i pass on this boat? I am building a 17' wooden catamaran and am comfortable with epoxy and fiberglass work so that's not a problem. How big of a fix is this? can it wait a season or is it only going to get worse until it's fixed? Will it ever be "right" again?

Thanks for your expertise!

Kevin

[GreenLake]

If you have another DS you are looking at that doesn't have this problem, then you might be better off - but, if you do the work on this one properly, then you might have a better boat overall.

The dents will show up again when the boat's on the water, because then the water pushes up. The loads will be less concentrated, yes, but the weight will be higher - by your weight, and the gear (sails etc).

Running rigging isn't the world to update and you may want to reconfigure it somewhat to suit your taste anyway. So that doesn't figure into the buying decision.

KC Walker has described in his post "The Core Project" elsewhere in this forum how to stiffen a hull by adding a foam core. This is something that's probably worth your while to read in detail. If you can't see yourself doing that much work, at least replace the stringers by something wider and deeper.

But, as I mentioned at the top, if you do the work, your boat will be stiffer than it's been since the day it left the factory. Or something like that, so it would really add value (in terms of functionality not price).

In the process, adding some reinforcements to the CB trunk won't add much to the work and seems indicated. My 1963 DS has been upgraded by someone drilling and tapping into the back side of the square CB pin and adding a bolt on the other side. As a result, I don't see the flexing that others report from the CB hanging "off center" on a pin supported only on one side.

If the laminate is weak from flexing, it will get weaker over time, based on how hard you sail the boat. Very flat water and wind < 10kts would stress the boat far less than choppy waters and wind > 15kts.

That said, if there are no major leaks around that CB crack, you might want to take the boat out first and gain a bit of experience so you know the full scope of your todo-list for the winter.

It goes without saying that you'd plan on things to break or rip after a time of disuse. That's only normal, but do allow for that in deciding where and and with whom you're going to go out.

That's my take based on what I can learn from your description and pictures - no way of telling whether I would come to a different conclusion standing in front of the boat. Having said that, the DS, and particularly the DS1 is an eminently repairable boat, most conditions being fully restorable. The one reason not to go for it would be an existing offer to buy a better-maintained boat for a competitive price.

One thing further to check is the state of the flotation in seats and bow. If that's not been changed and the boat sat outside, it's soggy and will need replacement - dozens of posts on that topic here.

[kharder]

GreenLake, thanks for the quick reply. "The Core Project" thread has answered a lot of my questions. I am traveling next week and the seller has promised not to make any commitments to other buyers until I return as I was the first person to respond and come visit in person. That should give me some time to think it over and reach an informed decision. I don't care about the running rigging as I would change all that anyway, I guess I mention it because it needs to factor into the pricing particularly when comparing with more up to date boats. I'm sure the flotation foam will need to be ripped out and inspection hatches would be a good idea anyway.

The more I look through all the other pictures I took the more it looks like the only deformation is the in the middle of the aft floor and around the centerboard. The seats seem to be holding everything else in place. Sighting down the sheer line looked fair which makes me think the whole boat isn't hogged and the topsides didn't have much flex when I went around and knocked on them looking for more soft spots. The boat is only supported at the bow, on the keel near the centerboard pivot, and across the hull about 1' aft of the end of the centerboard case. Sat that way for 9 years, no wonder the centerboard case has been pushed up!

I think that properly supported with fore and aft bunks it will return to the original shape, but will need new stringers or a full core job to hold that shape rigidly. Compared with all the epoxy work I've been doing on the scratch build catamaran I think a full core job wouldn't even be that bad and that makes me think this is a pretty restorable boat given the condition of everything else and the price.

I am thinking I could use pairs of long wood battens, one internal and one external, screwed together through the hull laminate to pull the hull skin back into a fair curve then lock it in place with a full core sandwich. But as long as it doesn't leak it sounds like I can sail her first and see how bad the flexing is and dig in for a repair in the fall.

Anyone have a decent trailer they would be willing to part with so I can get it off this clunker? Anything I can do to make the trip home safer for the already flexed hull?

[K.C. Walker]

Hi Kevin,

I don't know if you have decided to go ahead with this boat or not, if the rest of the hull is as you say, it's definitely a repairable boat. The boat, if you're interested in a stiff and responsive boat, this one will need a lot of reinforcement. As you say, you don't want to move the boat on that trailer because every bounce will do more damage. If the depression from the trailer straightens out when you lift the transom, that means the boat is really flexible. The soft area is probably from about the front of the centerboard trunk to the transom. The boat is pretty thick in that area, like 3/8+". You should not be able to flex the hull with hand pressure in a good stiff boat. To judge the softness you can use a rubber hammer or even try flexing it by pushing up on the hull right next to the depression and then check to see how flexible it is radiating out from there.

Because you're making a boat, you are not going to be totally satisfied with this boat until you do the work on it. Yes you can sail it as is, I sailed mine and fell in love with it before doing the work. I think the boat is perfect for day sailing with one or two people it's even okay with three. So, after doing the refurbishing work and some upgrades to the rigging it's a really sweet boat.

It is a lot of work to do the core, no question. It'll make a super stiff boat, though. Don't forget that you will need to fair the bottom after you get the core in. There's no way you can get it back to perfect without doing fairing.

Taking this all into consideration there was an outstanding deal for sale in the classifieds by JW. He addressed all the issues with his boat including painting inside and out and refurbishing the trailer all for $2300!

Another thought is to pick up this boat with the thought of selling it while you look for another one. This way you can try out the boat and see if you like it and if it's worth searching out another one.

[kharder]

A quick update now that I'm back. I have decided not to buy the boat. I could have done the work but then I wouldn't have been sailing this season and the extra up front cost of a new trailer was more than my pocketbook could bear for a non functioning boat.

In other news I am going to see another early DS1 that is on a good trailer and was actively sailed last season. The price is not much more and it comes with a brand new rudder (dropped the old one in a river), updated rigging, fresh coat of paint and two sets of sails. I do hope that this one is in better structural shape, but at least I know the trailer is ready for a road trip.

I'll keep you all posted.

p.s. it has a cap on the centerboard trunk, does that jive with a reported 1965 manufacturing date? In one picture it has 997 as a sail number. I don't know about stringers, motor well or traveler "bumps" yet to help identify age. It does have one of the old style post cam cleats on the cuddy roof that matches the two on the centerboard case and what look like original spinnaker guy hooks behind the chainplates. I'll know more when i see it tomorrow.

[K.C. Walker]

In my view, you're making the right move. You are in a really good area to find a nice DS 1. Even in really good shape they don't command a lot of money. Sure, they don't come up for sale every day but there still are enough of them around that it's worth waiting to find a good one. Good luck and let us know.