hull to deck joint separation

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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby jeadstx » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:01 pm

I have the same problem on my DS II. Same side, but not as extensive. My separation starts about a foot from the bow and runs about 3' aft. The previous owner attempted to repair it with pop rivets, not a very good repair but has held fairly well. I have sailed the boat for several years with the bad repair. It needs to be redone. I was planning a repair with 5200 like Tim did, hopefully this spring.

Some repairs to the hull deck joint are more difficult on a DS II than on a DS I due to the double hull. Some places can't be accessed without the installation of an inspection port. The DS I has a hull/deck joint that can be worked on from the inside, also it is a different type joint with a flat area that originally was stapled together with heavy staples, then had a plastic channel piece added the held on a rub rail. The DS II has a curved hull/deck joint with no rub rail. D&R Marine lists a channel piece that can go over the edge to attach a rub rail to similar to the DS I.

On my boat, the bow eye is also pulling loose. I will be putting an inspection port in the deck in the bow (between the bow and the bulkhead for the flotation tank) to access the bow eye so I can repair it. Hopefully that will happen this weekend, weather permitting. After the repair, since I will have the port, I want to create a line storage area there.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby badgley » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:50 pm

Hi all, I know this is an old thread but I'm trying to help keep the forums organized rather than spread across a bunch of random threads. Anyway, in this and other threads I've consistently seen 5200 recommended for the hull/deck joint. My 1982 DSII is separating for about a 3-4' section starting almost right at the transom and running forward on the port side. I have my trusty tube of 5200. However, when I look under there, it looks to me like the edges of the hull and deck flanges meet at the joint and the separate as they roll further outward, if that makes sense. Almost like the hull flange rolls at a smaller radius than the deck, so that there is a flared gap that is "V" cross section between the contact point and the outmost edges of the two lips. And in this V, there is some kind of old filler or putty that has cracked. The problem is, this seems to be in the way of really getting a good bead of 5200 into the contact area of the joint to do a solid repair. I've attached a picture below (looking up from below and forward towards the shrouds from the transom) with a screwdriver wedged in to try to illustrate what I mean.

2515

So my question is, should I be digging/scraping that old putty out of the section where I want to repair the joint? Or just doing my best to get 5200 up into any cracks that I can? I'm afraid to pry it open too much for fear of opening more of the joint. And if I do scrape it out, should I just fill the whole void with 5200? Or 5200 the contact area and then fill the "V" with something else? Thanks for any help anyone can provide!
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:58 pm

Hi Brian,

What you describe is indeed the case. What you'll want to do, or at least what I did in a few areas along the hull/deck joint, is to get all the loose filler out of there that you can. Then you can apply the 5200 to the voids, and use some clear wrap (Saran Wrap) taped in place to hold it in until the 5200 sets up. In my experience, the clear wrap then peeled off easily, leaving a smooth outer finish to the 5200. This put a stop to one of the sources of the leaks into the bilge I was on a mission to eradicate!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby badgley » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:26 am

Perfect, thanks Tim. It's supposed to get warmer this weekend again finally so I'll give it a go. That's a good point that I don't need to get all of that stuff completely out of the void, just the loose stuff. That also would have been a lot of 5200 to completely refill it...
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59 pm

No prob! Just do small areas at a time, working your way around the hull. I think I ended up using two of the 3 oz. tubes. Hope it does warm up, and good luck!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby Zinger88 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:06 pm

You might also try a product called West Systems Six-10 Thickened Epoxy https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/six10-thickened-epoxy-adhesive/. I learned about it from https://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4691&p=24625&hilit=3M+epoxy#p24339 awhile back and used it on my hull separation issue with good success. Easy to use...just be sure you clean out all the gunk from the separation crack/void and prep it well.
Jim H
'76 Daysailer II, Sail #7920, Windsong
Burton, TX
~~ _/) ~
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby GreenLake » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:50 pm

While I love epoxy, using an adhesive sealant for this particular application is a pretty good option. Normally, the main reason to avoid 5200 is because it adheres too well - for hull-deck joint this is not an issue, since it's permanent - in contrast to bedding a deck fixture, for example.

Even using a cartridge with self-mixing tip, the fact that epoxy needs to be mixed and has a limited pot life are small disadvantages to a single-component sealant that you can apply as needed directly from a small tube. Sealing the tube with aluminum foil will extend the interval between re-use a bit.

Epoxy, if not FG reinforced, can be a bit brittle in wider gaps. I believe that the 5200 may well have better properties with that also, but haven't ever had a chance to compare both. When boat yards glue decks to hulls, they tend to use adhesive sealants, but not necessarily 5200.

Now, both can be messy, and I would try to get the 5200 in white, not black :)

I take it, this is for a DS2; on my DS1, the PO went ahead and added a glass tab between deck and hull all along the inside of the cuddy; on the outside, the actual joint is hidden under the rubrail.

Now, six-10, or the equivalent System Threes' GelMagic are awesome glues, and in the cartridge with self-mixing tip they are really convenient.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: hull to deck joint separation

Postby badgley » Mon May 14, 2018 11:00 am

Thanks for the extra tips guys - sorry, my email notifications must not be working so I just now saw these...

Anyway, the 5200 worked great. I agree with GreenLake, I have some epoxy but my concern about it was gap filling and brittleness. I know you can thicken but the flexibility of 5200 seems like a good match for that joint, and pretty much everything I read recommended it for that joint. If it's good enough for Hinckley, who am I to argue?

Although man, it's been a while. I forgot how much I hate working with that stuff. I think they call it "5200" because that's the average number of swear words uttered during a typical application. However, the plastic wrap (I used packing tape) was an excellent suggestion and a huge mess saver, thanks! I have some remaining gap to fill with something else, but I don't think that joint is going anywhere...
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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