Varnishing question

[Guinness]

I have decided to varnish the wood in my Daysailer I. To clean and sand the wood (from around the cockpit, the two seats, the two aft storage area bit, and the three pieces from under the cuddy) I have removed them.

Here's the question, is there a trick to varnishing the wood prior to putting it back on the boat? Should you varnish one side, with one coat, let it dry, and then varnish the other side, for each of the coats? Or, do you complete all the coats on one side, then flip it and do all the other coats? Or, is there a trick to hanging/supporting the individual pieces and and putting varnish on both sides at the same time for each coat?

As always, any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Guinness
Newly inherited owner of Daysailer #11929

[kokko]

I completely disassembled the boards and removed the coaming from the boat. Sanded evrything smooth and filled the cracks. Wait! label every piece when you take it apart. You can use a marker where the board meets the stringer. I use WoodPro from West. Varnished one side, let it dray, then the other. I did four coats, lightly sanding between each coat

[GreenLake]

For the coamings I decided not to varnish, but to treat with epoxy first (3 coats), then PolyUrethane with a cross linker (4 coats). The latter is for UV protecting the expoxy. (This is following the SystemThree recommendations for treating outdoor wood.)

Now, the epoxy needs to be recoated while not fully cured, and I didn't want to do all coats on one side, then all coats on the other, so I "cheated".

I made a set of peg boards with tall nails sticking out that fit loosely through two existing holes in at each end of the coaming pieces (screw holes). Then I put a pair of short nails about 1.5" on either side of the tall nails.

Each board was now held in place by the long nails, and held in the air by resting on the short nails. I then would coat the outer side first, flip the board while wet and then coat the inner side using the same batch of epoxy.

This worked really well. The long nails never got stuck in the epoxy, because the pieces were moved before the epoxy was fully cured. The short nails left four tiny bumps on the outer side of the coamings. I took those off with a chisel before putting on the next coat, as well as at the end. Most of them are hidden against the hull anyway, but even those that should be visible, aren't.

For the thwarts I simply screwed some lag screws into the srew holes so they got some temporary "feet" on which I could rest them. That left a ridge on the underside of the screw holes, which I took off with a chisel - and those spots are well hidden, so I didn't have to care about looks at all (I did wrap wax paper around the threads of the screws to prevent the epoxy from making them a permanent part of the assembly )

[K.C. Walker]

Green Lake,

How long ago did you do this system? I just did my thwarts that way and am thinking about doing more for the woodwork that way because it was quick and is supposed to hold up better than regular varnish. Do you think it's holding up fine?

Did you use any stain under the epoxy? I used a water-based dye stain but I don't know how that will hold up to sun bleaching.

I also used the nail board system.

KC

[persephone]

As an alternative...

Instead of varnish I sanded the boards to bare wood, then oiled them. It means re-oiling probably once during the season (about 1 hours work). It gives a clean, but no gloss finish.

[GreenLake]

Oiling should work, from all I've read about it, if you have the time&discipling for frequent maintenance. There's something to be said about being able to touch up without a lot of prep.

My only experience with oil is doing the handles of my kitchen knives. They look great when they're freshly done, but I also don't keep them stored under a tarp outside all winter. Then again, nobody throws my DS into the dishwasher by accident.

About the epoxy covered with crosslinked PolyUrethane. Unfortunately it's been too recent to give useful data on durability. What I can say is that the resulting coat is more substantial than with varnishing alone and feels very nice. The previous PU varnish had a tendency to crack where something bumped into the wood. (Not a problem you'd have with oil incidentally).

I know that the previously used brand of PU coating, not crosslinked and applied by itself, without an epoxy base, has not held up well - it's subject to flaking off (one or more layers of the stuff decide to separate in little flakes - at unpredictable times). This has not happened the cross-linked PU over epoxy. That's been holding up a little longer now than the shortest time to failure for the other method. First milestone passed.

Incidentally, I decided against the glossy look, and used a low gloss satin for the final coats.

I did not use a stain. Even though I thought I'd sanded far beyond the existing coats, when I finished the wood, it didn't all come out the same color. I find the result pleasing in its own way - there's an honest indication of the age and history of the material.

[thumb=742]

I'm worried that I don't understand the reason for some of the difference in shading (not the darker spots as shown in the image, but some ligther areas on the inside). The sanded wood looked rather uniform, even when I wet it down with alcohol. If the lighter color it's due to different rates of absorption for the initial epoxy coat, then you could have the same problem applying a stain. At any rate, I decided I liked the color I got - the thick coating makes it look lustrous anyway.

[Baysailer]

Guiness, I just finished all my woodwork and from my experience it works best to refinish the bottoms first as well as the unexposed (mostly) sides of the coamings, then work the topsides. Reason is no matter how good you are the varnish will leave drip marks on the side opposite where your working. So work the visible side last to keep it neater.

You could strip them all down first (both sides) but you will have to come back and scrape and sand the drip marks, and they'll still leave some stain.

I left mine in tact while refinishing because the boards and fittings were all in good condition. I also cleaned out all the screw tops and put latex wood filler over the screw heads but a lot of people just varnish right over them with good results.

For the varnishes and varnishing. I've used petits epiphanes, captains spar varnish and rustoleum marine varnish on various projects. If I had to choose one I'd probably pick Captains for its ease of use, cost , looks and longevity but varnish choices are very subjective. I also just used Cetol (with teak coloring) on the tops of my DS boards and coamins and it looks good to me too but it is expensive and doesn't go very far, we'll see how long it lasts. Cut the first coat of varnish with a thinner so it acts like a primer coat. I think you'll be impressed with your results. Good luck.

Fred B
Baysailer (DS#1351)

[MrPlywood]

I refinished my woodwork a year ago. There is a description in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=2502&highlight=

The finish still looks very good despite spending the winter in some harsh conditions, resulting in the floorboards being underwater for a month.

Check out the varnishing "schedule" in the Don Casey link. I followed the recommended "primer" coats. Doing this seems to help avoid staining and creates an excellent base for your top coats.

As far as avoiding drips, I coated all the boards while flat but raised on thin strips of wood that didn't extend past the edges so I could go around the edges and knock down any stray drips. Greenlake's nail idea sounds like a good one too. You could even set them up like a rotisserie between a couple of saw horses so the boards don't rest on anything but the end nails, but there are different board lengths to deal with and I was short on sawhorses

Applying thinner coats helps avoid drips too. Takes a bit longer to build up, but I think you're getting a more flexible, durable finish that way. I think having the pieces flat also allows the varnish to "level" better. Coating the most visible portion last makes sense. I alternated - back side, dry, front side, dry, sand - repeat as many times as you want

A compressor help get rid of sanding dust.

Here's a pic of the results:

[GreenLake]

Three sawhorses is indeed what I used. (I run a surplus of saw horses )