Mounting cam cleats to centerboard trunk.

[Helderberg Complainer]

What is the best way to mount cam cleats for the sheets on the centerboard trunk? I am unsure how thick the fibreglass is, or if it is wood cored. Would pop rivets work, and if so, how long? Will screws hold in the fiberglass? How have you solved this?

[GreenLake]

My DS! came with an aluminum U channel which had badly corroded. I took the measurements off it and had a stainless steel part machined, which looks like this:



It is fixed by two through-bolts (#6 machine screws, I believe).

They actually end up barely inside the CB trunk, but close enough to its upper end that the board does not touch them when retracted. The whole setup is very solid and by through-bolting I don't have to access the CB trunk itself.

The cleats themselves are through-bolted with the proper size machine screw - I believe it's a #8, but whatever the cleat vendor specifies.

The CB trunk top on my DS is "reinforced" under the middle of the U channel. Just a roughly shaped blob of mat and resin. I had to drill dimples into the extra fiberglass so that the bolts for the cleats could fit, but no need to drill through into the CB trunk opening.

[kkearns]

The previous owner of my boat devised a nice set up. Two wooden bocks on either side of the centerboard trunk with a wooden "bridge" linking the two. The two cleats are attached directly to the wooden bridge. No drilling into the centerboard trunk. It works great!

[GreenLake]

But how is the whole "bridge" attached to the boat?

[kkearns]

I tried to post a photo last night, but I could not do it. The blocks are attached to the wooden thrwarts (?) and they are high enough to just clear the top of the centerboard. Then there is a simply a piece of plywood (treated and varnished of course) perhaps 3/4 in thick laid over the top and attached to the two blocks. It sits almost on top of the trunk. Then the cleats are drilled into the piece of plywood. If you can tell me how to post a photo on the site, I'll be happy to supply.

Kevin

[GreenLake]

If I understand this correctly, instead of drilling into the trunk, you drill into the thwarts.

If you look into the website-info section of this forum you will see a post there about posting pictures. If you still have questions, send me a PM.

[K.C. Walker]

My centerboard trunk has a cap on it which is about 1/4" thick fiberglass and also has molded in ramps for cleats and fairleads, all original. The hardware is screwed directly on with number 10 stainless screws. It all works great.

I would think that it would be easy enough to mold some angled flats for the cleats and fairleads out of epoxy putty.

KC

[Peterw11]

I've been talking about doing this since I got my DS1 a year ago. When I first got it, my jib cleats were mounted on the thwarts (original, I would think) but as they were pointed directly at the gun'ls, an awkward reach, especially when singlehanding.

Rotating the cleats 45 degrees, toward the cuddy, made things a lot easier, so relocating them are not as much of a priority as they once were.

I still plan to do it. I bought new Ronstan cleats from Rudy last summer and they're still in my garage, awaiting installation.

My idea was to mount them on a wooden platform above the CB trunk, similar to what Kkearns describes, and every time I sail, I ponder the best approach. I think I've got it doped out.

When I removed my thwarts last fall to refinish them, I found that the metal flange that attached them to the CB trunk is about 2 inches wide and the inboard screw holes are only about 1/2" away from the end of the thwart.

If I redrill the holes approx. an inch outward, toward the center of the thwart and reinstall the screws, I'll still have the same strength at the attachment, plus I can use the original holes to mount the wooden "legs" of the cleat platform (kkearns set up), by installing wood screws from the bottom.

I've got some 1" thick mahogany scraps that'll work fine, bridging the CB trunk, and also adding a bit more brightwork to the cockpit.

Well, that's the plan, anyway...

[K.C. Walker]

This is how I did it for my swivel cleat and it works fine. I think if I had thought about doing it in epoxy putty I might have gone that route, though. I think that it would be cleaner and less maintenance.


Here is the original molded in set up for the jib sheet cleats. I think it would be pretty easy to duplicate with the epoxy putty and be plenty strong enough.


KC

[kkearns]

Someone asked for photos of my setup. I'm sorry but I can't figure out how to post a single photo. If you look through this Flickr site which is a chronology of my restoration, you'll find some nice shots of the center console setup constructed by the previous owner. I've swapped out the old cleat for modern ones.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40350223@N07/?saved=1

Kevin

[GreenLake]

Thanks for the link to the pictures.

The CB trunk is strong enough that it should not be necessary to anchor the cleats on the thwarts, but I can see that with a wooden bracket it might be easier to anchor it to the thwarts.

[Peterw11]

Both GreenLakes and Kkearns approaches are variations of the same theme, and pretty much accomplish needs to be done.

I do like the wooden cap approach on Kevin's boat, as that adds a bit more brightwork to the cockpit, and is probably the way I'll go as well.

My only alteration would be to extend the "platform" section further aft, to move the cleats a bit closer to my normal location while under way.
Well, that, and I may hit the edges with a router to dress them up a bit.

Now if I can only figure out how to add some wood to the trailing edge of the cuddy. That bare fiberglass lip always struck me as a bit naked and unfinished in it's original state.

Now if I can only figure out how to bend the wood to accomodate that rather severe radius on the edge (it curves inward about 6" from horizontal, by my measurement), either by steam bending or cold molding and laminating thin strips of mahogany, it should finish off the cockpit nicely.

[seandwyer]

Hey KKearns,

Yea, thanks for the pictures. Nice job - you should be proud of her!

[GreenLake]

This is how I did it for my swivel cleat ...

K.C., looking again at your picture, there seems to be a second, smaller swivel behind the CB trunk. What is that for?

[K.C. Walker]

Green Lake,

The little swivel cleat is a tube swivel cleat and it's for the vang. http://www.apsltd.com/c-2021-thistlehar ... tings.aspx I run the vang to a through deck block on the top of the cuddy just behind the mast, down to a cheek block on the keelson, another one at the bottom on the centerboard trunk and then fed up through the tube into the swivel. I got the idea from Mike Gillum who copied Dave Keran's set up, but they both use them on their Thistles, and it's standard on that boat.

The idea is that when you are vang sheeting you have control while hiking out. Also, the skipper doesn't have to ask a crew member to adjust the vang.

KC