Hydro-Turf antiskid

[K.C. Walker]

I've been thinking about antiskid for my cockpit floor. Couple of years ago I laminated a core in the cockpit floor which has worked great with the exception of I never had antiskid. When I am sailing hard and the spray is coming in it gets pretty slick especially with bare feet. So, I've been contemplating some alternatives.

I really don't want to put the wood floor back in, because I really don't need it or want to maintain it. I also don't want to use grit, like sand or walnut hulls as I would like to avoid road rash. I looked at Kiwi Grip and that might work. However, one alternative that I've recently discovered is Hydro-Turf which looks pretty comfortable http://hydroturf.com/index.php . I suppose it would add a minor amount of flotation, as well. I am thinking it might also be comfortable on the seats and side decks.

Has anybody tried this stuff? Any thoughts?

[GreenLake]

I regularly launch from a beach site, where there's inevitably some sand tracked into the boat. Actually, rather coarse sand at that. With the wood floors, the sand quickly falls through the cracks and collects harmlessly until I can flush the boat the next time.

That's one of the reasons why I've been going slow on following your example. The other is that it's nice not to be stepping in water (whether it collects from rain, occasional CB dripping or spray). But the material you link shows promise. Perhaps, if you leave a bit of a channel near the centerline...

[K.C. Walker]

Green Lake,

Thanks for your thoughts! I've had totally mixed thoughts about the floorboards, even before I put in the core. I do like the way they look. However, I'm a little obsessive about keeping the bilge dry and I found the floorboards to always be in the way and make it more difficult to bail and sponge. It kind of drove me crazy to think about the floorboards sitting in water and rotting and indeed they were. I even went so far as to totally strip and sand the floorboards, ready to put them back when I decided not to. As I said, mixed feelings. I also found the varnished floorboards to be pretty slick when the spray is flying. I did find that 3M makes an antiskid tape that is clear for bathtubs that might work well on varnished floorboards. I thought also about doing unfinished teak or the American workboat equivalent, black locust.

I certainly get plenty of sand in the cockpit and it really does show with the white epoxy paint. Because this stuff is a quarter inch thick, I was thinking if I put it down in sections with channels, the water would more readily drain towards the centerboard trunk. Though it might look more "technical" than I think the aesthetic of a DS is it still might look okay.

[GreenLake]

K.C.,

I think we agree on that the DS just wasn't designed to look hi-tech. That's one reason why I didn't go with an aluminum rudder head when I did my rebuild (done, but still needs to be tested).

Sometimes, practicality rules, though. If channels with some nice antiskid work for you, great. The boards do add weight (nice, when you are by yourself, crusing, not so nice in a competition).

For bailing, nothing beats the straight pump - I've been using a $3.00 version sold as squirt gun, and it works great. Works with any shallow puddle, meaning that very little is left behind. (Sponging is a thing of the past).

I usually take out whatever water has accumulated when I have the boat sitting at an angle at the launch. After that, it's stored covered, so I don't have the problem of standing water. But I've been on a few trips where it's been nice not to have to put the feet into the growing puddle... (And not only feet, but all the loose stuff in the boat.

Perhaps, putting some sort of plastic grating in the front half would give you the best of both worlds. A reasonably dry spot for storage, so nothing gets wet from below, and an unobstructed noskid floor to step on in the cockpit...

There are a number of different materials made for locker rooms and the like that might give you a good combination of light weight and being raised off the floor. As you don't need antiskid in the cuddy, your choices would be wide open.

[Mike Gillum]

The TP 52 fleet has gone to a Hydro-Turf type of product to cover their entire cockpit floor. I've seen it slowly migrate to cover the side decks of Melges 32.
I've heard that it has excellent grip but has tendency to "eat" clothing and skin because of the sharp grooves.
Not sure that it would be the best application in a DS floor given its relatively flat floor. My concern is water getting trapped in the grooves of several of the patterns and not going to the bilge to be easily removed by the bailer or bailing bucket.
Water is weight and each gallon trapped is 8#+/- per gallon depending on whether it's fresh or salt water.
FYI the absolute best bailing bucket is a pistol grip Super Soaker Squirt Gun my wife Mardi bought at Wal Mart. We crewed for our friend Scott at 2009 Thistle Mid Winters East and Scott had a Super Soaker. Mardi laughed at first thinking it was a novelty toy until Scott told to use it and then it was love!
Besides the DS I also race Thistles. Both of my Thistles are restored 50+ year old competitive woodies. Sisterships that are exact opposites.
#1010 has white topsides and a clear natural interior with three strips of 2" wide 3M "Clear" non-skip tape each side between the seats and centerboard trunk.
The 3M "Clear" isn't really clear rather a beige color that nearly disappears against the really super slippery varnished interior. The grip of the 3M non-skip is very aggressive and in two years has held up very well so far.
Over the years several Thistle friends have used everything from crushed Walnut Shells to Sand covered with WEST Epoxy and finished with either paint or varnish as well as a couple of the newer non-skid powders for the two part paints.
#1014 has natural varnished topsides and a white painted interior with a couple of ratty 1" strips of 1" wide white non-skip. The interior really needs to be sanded and refinished into one uniform color rather than several different shades of white used previously for touch-up.
When I refinish the interior of #1014 and DS #2772 I intend to use Kiwi-Grip between the seats and centerboard trunk.
Keep in the back of your mind that whatever product you use you'll need to plan on refinishing it somewhere down the road as the non-skip will eventually wear off.

[K.C. Walker]

Green Lake,

Ever since I decided not to put I floorboards back I've been thinking about a floor/rack in the cuddy. One of my thoughts was to put a cuddy sole of plywood epoxy coated and epoxied to the top of the keelson and then epoxied on the edges making some additional small flotation chambers. It seems to me that this would seriously stiffen up the boat under the mast and at the same time provide elevated storage above the bilge water.

Okay, what is a straight pump? And where can I get one?

[K.C. Walker]

Mike,

Thank you for your thoughts and experience!

Ah ha, the Super Soaker, next time I'm at Wal-Mart I'll pick one up.

I had not thought about the Hydro-Turf eating skin and clothing. I guess I figured it would not be that aggressive. But, my windsurfer boom has similar stuff on it and my hands are kind of smooth after a day of windsurfing. Good grip though! And… definitely not as aggressive as sandpaper.

So maybe I will go with the Kiwi-Grip or 3M tape.

Maybe I should buy some of those padded hiking out shorts for comfort on the side deck.

[GreenLake]

One of my thoughts was to put a cuddy sole of plywood epoxy coated and epoxied to the top of the keelson and then epoxied on the edges making some additional small flotation chambers. It seems to me that this would seriously stiffen up the boat under the mast and at the same time provide elevated storage above the bilge water.

Is that where you need stiffening? I would glass a "frame" of something stiff and 3-4" wide along the sides (and across the hull/deck joint) perhaps tying into a stringer under the cuddy roof - the idea is to have that work like an "open" bulkhead (similar to, but not as constricting as the cuddy opening mods that were made for the DSII).

There's some serious laminate under the keelson, and the area should be locally more stiff than other hull areas - esp. since you've already added core there. (This is thinking "theoretically", so if you have evidence of flexing, I'd love to know).

I was thinking more along the lines of a "raised liner" out of some cheap and hopefully lightweight plastic material. In function like those hex-pattern rubber mats, but lighter - lifting just enough of the floor to let water puddle underneath.

If you go for something heavy anyway, just put the forward floor boards back in

Okay, what is a straight pump? And where can I get one?

I think it's the one Mike mentioned. I'm not sure I got a branded one, but mine has a pistol grip on what is otherwise a straight piston with a short nozzle. The nozzle is designed to get water out of the shallowest of puddles, so it's great for bailing.

When you sail in a "Wednesday night" event, esp. a relaxed one, they are great for boat-to-boat action as well

Mine was $3.00 in the seasonal items aisle at the local grocery store.

[ctenidae]

I built a platform that goes in the cuddy, about 2.5 feet wide and 2 or so feet deep. Back corners sit on the floor where it curves up right at the bow tank, and the front edge rests on the disk for the screwjack. It sits totally out of teh water and is pretty stable. May build a new one that is wedge shaped so that it's outer edges sit on the "floor" where the floor is curving up, if that makes any sense at all.

I just have the aft floorboards in- I find they're great for keeping feet dry, getting out of sand, and keeping non-slip paint from rippping the soles off my feet.

[seandwyer]

KC,

I must, (no other choice) go on record for being an advocate of an unfinished, but smoothly sanded and oiled black locust set of floor boards. Posts holding swinging bridges up in these parts (read, generally submerged) have lasted for a generation or more - as I'm sure you know, because I know you know wood.

Personally, I dry sail. I pull the boards up and stack them on the seats, then just drain the boat if anything accumulates. With a boom tent the only water is stuff that blows in and never amounts to much. Eventually I want to install a drain plug through the transom, tilt the boat a bit and stop worrying - but I'm sill stuck with the plug just aft of the centerboard. If you moor the boat, I'm assuming you could do something similar, although it does sound a bit more strenuous. My floorboards are in good condition and need only a few nails before I begin this season, but I know they are impermanent. As soon as they go, several tenuous cuttings of black locust from some local saw mill will be how I go. I like the feeling of wood beneath my feet, the lessened heat that wood affords and the wood makes me so happy to see! You know what I mean - it just makes a guy happy. I'm glad you got you floor solid - mine actually has some boards imbedded, but last summer I noticed the floor coming undone and a small pool, really a pocket of water accumulated and intruding beneath the glass into the void that houses the wood. I hope it hasn't gone too far, but still haven't had a chance to inspect or repair.

I took Greenlake's advice and have been using a light colored tarp this winter and things are sooo much better than the dry blue particles and water that I found in the spring last year - actually it was a blue flecked ice cube!

My life seems so busy these days, but I do read nearly everything you guys post.

I love this boat and cannot wait until summer and my vacation on Pelee Island!!

[K.C. Walker]

Chesapeake Light Craft seems to like Seadek which I had looked at earlier. I think it looks really good. It's similar to Hydro Turf. Apparently, it's not as easy to cut as I have mostly seen it as CNC custom cut. It is also about twice the price.