mid-boom mainsheeting hardware

[newfaner]

Rudy at D&R recommends a Garhauer Mainsheet Standup Swivel Block w/Cam cleat on centerboard trunk aft and a Garhauer Fiddle Block w/Adjustable Shackle 1 directly above it @ mid-boom. But he says I can't accommodate a ratchet and I sure would like to. Any ideas for modifying this setup, or an alternative with a ratchet? Thanks.

[GreenLake]

Perhaps you could convert this one

http://www.shopsoundboatworks.com/le60rafiblwb.html

to a standup by inverting it and using a standup base?

A./

[newfaner]

Greenlake: Many thanks. Adapting the Lewmar may be beyond my skills. I've just found a Feb 7, 2011, post from you re using a ratchet in the mid-boom block itself, which I believe is a fiddle block. Did this work, and if so what's a 90 degree turn? KC Walker in response says he did the same thing AND added a ratchet in the CB-mounted swivel cleat. Did he say what he used (beyond reference to 75mm)?
Dave

[rnlivingston]

http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ ... G_0668.jpg

I have mid boom sheeting on my 1973 Daysailer There is a Harken Ratchet block on the swivel and one on the trunk. Most days I only keep one in ratchet mode.

Hope the link above works for you.

Roger Livingston
DS 6872

[Baysailer]

Don't get to hung up on ratchet blocks for the mainsheet, they're nice but certainly not required. The important features for a mainsheet system are simple, reliable blocks and cleats that are easily accessable, can be released in a panic and don't get fouled-tangled. Mid boom setup fits this bill.

I think D&R's solution is a good one and if you wanted to change it at a later date could always use it for a boom vang setup. I've used some Garhauer I got from D&R and it's held up and performed well.

If you wanted an up release instead of a down relase for the cleat you could start with this. I'm sure D&R could get them too.

http://www.mauriprosailing.com/Garhauer ... HMSSJ.html

Baysail

[K.C. Walker]

newfaner,

Ratchet blocks are great and I think you are on the right track. I disagree with Rudy on this one. I replaced my original set up which was similar to that one because it scared me. When the weather gets heavy trying to un-cleat that set up is not good. I hate having to un-cleat the main by pushing down on the line and when you're hiked out you pretty much have to do that with your toe.

I replaced mine with a Ronstan swivel cleat base which I think is a tremendous improvement and totally worth the expense, though it does not fit the exact hole spacing so I had to adapt. You could have an adapter plate made at a machine shop if need be. The only reason I went with a Harken 75 mm ratchet block is because I got a new one off eBay for $30 including shipping. A 55 mm would be perfect for on the swivel base. The rest of the tackle can be 40 mm, I used Harken Carbo Air Blocks. I do have one 40 mm ratchet block on the boom right above the centerboard trunk. It's rare that I need both ratchets engaged. The 90° turn on the mid-boom ratchet block is that both Green Lake and I have the end boom bridal set up.

I also switched from mid-boom only sheeting to a bridal on the rear deck so that I have 2:1 on the end of the boom and then forward to mid-boom. A lot of the top racers use a similar set up for excellence sail control. However, I'm contemplating switching back. As a cruiser with a motor on the transom I get some very scary fouling of the lines just at the wrong times. I almost dumped the boat the other day when the wind was up and I fouled the motor on a tack (and I thought I was being careful to pull in all the slack line).

[K.C. Walker]

newfaner,

If the swivel base that Baysailer referenced has the same hole spacing as the centerboard trunk, that would be an easy solution and it would be less expensive than the Ronstan. If you set up like Rogers picture, it should not be too difficult and I would much be happier with that set up than I would be with the all-in-one set up that Rudy recommended.

[K.C. Walker]

Roger,

A couple of questions about your setup, if you don't mind…
How is the "other block" attached to the centerboard cap?
I know you're racing and as I recall you have new North sails, how do you think the center boom sheeting is working for you with your setup, as far sail control?

Thanks, KC

[dbk0630]

I currently have the original fiddle block with downward facing cleat on the cb trunk; and a 55mm Ronstan Orbit ratchet block with becket on the boom... the one shown in this link: http://www.ronstan.us/marine5/product.asp?ProdNo=RF56111. Personally as I get into my 50s I appreciate having the extra holding power of the ratchet for sheeting the main... and like that with the added resistance of the ratchet, it's easier to uncleat and I can even hand-hold the main, without white-knuckling, when necessary. So, while I would likely to change to an upward facing cleat/swivel setup at some point, the downward facing cleat seems less bothersome with the mid-boom ratchet installed.

If you do go with the swivel block on the cb trunk that Rudy is recommending, you might/could go with this fiddle ratchet on the boom instead:
http://www.ronstan.us/marine5/product.asp?ProdNo=RF56511.

[K.C. Walker]

... and like that with the added resistance of the ratchet, it's easier to uncleat and I can even hand-hold the main, without white-knuckling, when necessary. So, while I would likely to change to an upward facing cleat/swivel setup at some point, the downward facing cleat seems less bothersome with the mid-boom ratchet installed.

Good point!

[rnlivingston]

The second ratchet block is attached to the trunk with a u shaped block hanger. It is through bolted right thru the cap.

I still believe you have better sail control with an aft mountd traveler properly set up, but after 6 races with 4 firsts and 2 seconds, I think the mid boom sheeting is fine. I certainly can point higher than the other Daysailers, but that is probably due to how the boat is set up.

On my Mariner I also have mid boom sheeting, but since I set this up myself, I used two fiddle blocks...the bottom one is a ratcheting block.

Since I'm kind of old, I like being able to hand hold the main sheet in high winds without being cleated in.

Roger Livingston

[GreenLake]

However, I'm contemplating switching back. As a cruiser with a motor on the transom I get some very scary fouling of the lines just at the wrong times. I almost dumped the boat the other day when the wind was up and I fouled the motor on a tack (and I thought I was being careful to pull in all the slack line).

K.C.

I keep fouling the mainsheet on gybes, it likes to hook itself under the rubrail at the corners. And similarly, when I have my motor set up. But I've never had issues during tacks. My motor - being a trolling motor, tilts nearly 90° so it is well below the bridle - during a tack there's usually never enough slack to allow any line close enough.

[K.C. Walker]

Green Lake,

I hear you on the jibes... I'm totally familiar with that foul. I normally don't have problems on tacking unless the wind is really howling. This was on the day that I posted about earlier as the perfect force 4. I guess with the wind blowing 15 to 20 kn when I tacked the sails were flapping and snapping and both the jib and the main sheets were flopping around and got snagged on things. No doubt, there was some poor seamanship involved.

I'm going to try an experiment next time I go out where I move the aft tackle 2 feet forward on the boom. I don't think this is going to get in the way. We'll see. I set it up this way in the side yard and have done some yard yachting to contemplate whether it will be in the way. I think it's going to take real sailing to be sure, though. With the tackle at the end of the boom it dangles right over the motor so if there's any slack it has a pretty good chance of snagging.

[newfaner]

This query began with an old and bloated rear-boom-attached mainsheet. Like Green Lake's and KC's, it would catch around the stern corner rubrail and on the motor mount. I'd jibe at a mark, head downwind, and find my sail wasn't paying out. But then it often wasn't paying out because it was too old and fat to go through the blocks.

I called Rudy @ D&R thinking I could replace the mainsheet and boom-end block but he no longer carried it (DSI, early to mid 60s); I would have had to cut out the block, send it to Rudy to splice to a new mainsheet, and lost time on the water. Rudy pretty much told me to abandon rear-boom sheeting and it was an easy sell because I worked so hard at it when it was windy.

So you've all been helpful and I've appreciated the conversation. My solution for mid-boom sheeting reflects all of your input: 1) a cheap fiddle on the boom for some current savings; 2) a standup ratchet fiddle on a swivel cleat with uprelease (pretty critical and I'd missed it) mounted aft on the centerboard trunk. Roger, can you tell me what you used on your Mariner? Is such a comprehensive part available or do I need to copy your setup with the separate ratchet block?

While I've got you, Roger, your jib sheet setup intrigues me: Slanted car tracks? A standup ratchet block on the coaming or is that not so? Fairleads on the seats necessary?

Thanks again to everybody,
Dave Kolkebeck

[K.C. Walker]

A very good and economical solution for the bloated sheet rope is New England's Bzzz Line. I got mine from Intensity. Very quick shipping and they didn't even charge for it. Being that you're in New England I'm sure you would get it very quickly. I did go with 8mm for the main sheet and 7 mm for the jib sheet. The stuff runs through the blocks so easily and feels good in the hand. http://www.intensitysails.com/newenro7mmbu.html

I am thinking the freest running and reasonably priced setup would be with individual blocks rather than fiddles. If you do 3:1 like Rogers, all you need is 2 40 mm carbo air blocks, one with a beckett, then use a 57 mm ratchet block on the swivel base. These blocks are first-class so you wouldn't need to think about replacing them later. Instead of having to through bolt the eye strap to the top of the centerboard trunk you could use a boom bail which you could just screw into the sides of the top of the centerboard trunk. I just got a Dwyer one from APS for less than 6 bucks. http://www.apsltd.com/c-934-dwyerdinghy ... parts.aspx scroll down the page little bit.