Mid-ship cleats?

[hectoretc]

One of the things on my winter dry-dock "to-do" list is to install mid-ship cleats ostensibly for fenders and docking purposes, but it occurred to me yesterday (looking at yet another batch of DaySailer pictures, that not very many (as in I didn't see any at all) people have them.

My boat came with loose stern cleats (fixed) and a loose single centrally mounted foredeck cleat (yet to be fixed), which seems to be consistent with what I'm seeing on other posted photos (not the loose part).

How do you guys manage dock fenders? Hang them from the dock? from the sidestays? Are midship cleats frowned on for aesthetic or other reasons?

Thanks - Scott

[ChrisB]

There are no midship cleats on my DS II; it only stays on a dock long enough for me to park the car & trailer. On the rare occasion when I need to use a fender, I tie one end to the stay and the other to the jib fairlead/cleat.

[Kleanbore]

I try to keep the rail clear of things that will bruise my crew or I and/or tear up clothing. Flopping on a deck cleat as you finish a tack and flop back on the rail isn't my idea of a fun time to be had by all. I have whips on both ends of my fenders so I can tie them together. While at the dock, I tie 2 fenders together with 1 end cleated to the stern cleat and the other end is tied to the shroud turnbuckle.

Take care,
Kerry

[GreenLake]

I thing that cleats in that position would be asking for trouble. If you'd sailed your DS for a while, you'd probably agree that they can get in the way.

I've discovered over the years that docking is made simpler, the larger the fender I have. I always think the ones I already have are ridiculously oversized for such a small boat, but then I run into some dock somewhere, where I wish I'd brought something larger. So, next trip to the marine supply store, I get another one.

For long term docking, the least damaging would be if you had a piling and could use it to pull the DS away from your dock, so it's held only by lines, and there's nothing rubbing, not even a fender.
[thumb=874]
When I do use fenders, I prefer to use one big one, suspended from mast or shrouds (or even the jib cleats), and pivot the boat with lines from front an stern cleats so it kind of "balances" on that fender. Sometimes I hang a second one, a bits smaller, from the stern cleats, just because in swinging around the big fender, the stern is more likely to make contact.

At times I've hung that stern fender from the opposite side cleat, leading the line across the boat. Seemed to make a small difference to have a longer line.

I don't keep my boat at a dock for long periods (usually dinner and ice cream), but some places I've been to are rather exposed to waves (mostly from wakes). That may call for two additional lines at a very shallow angle. They would keep the boat from surging forward and back when the waves hit.

[kokko]

I added a pair just aft of the shrouds to give me another place to cleat off. Since my ds1 has coamings they don't get in the way.

[jdoorly]

Yes, there is a trip/snag issue when adding mid-ship cleats, but I rarely, if ever, put my foot around the shroud bases, and it would be handy to tie a fender there as well.

But the idea of where to put mooring/dock cleats should be more about does it improve the security of the dock/boat interface and where are the normal positions of cleats at your most used dock.

My most used ramp/dock has 3 wide docks with 2 wide ramps giving access to the middle 4 lanes. I check the wind and current and then decide which side of which dock I want to bring the trailer down. I like having the wind push the boat against the dock and have had problems with the boat getting away the 2 times I didn't do that. There are cleats about every 20 feet but some 1/2 of them are broken or missing. I have a line attached to the bow cleat that I grab as I push the boat off the trailer. Then I climb onto the dock and walk the boat back away from the ramp area and tie off the line to a dock cleat as a forward spring line, and then use the rest to tie off to a stern cleat as a stern line. I have always found this to be adequate as I park the car and trailer. It allows me to hold the boat in place for a while and I only need one cleat, and it's easy to undo and redo if I need to que up. When I'm ready to motor away from the dock (in reverse) the motor handle, the tiller, the stern cleat and the dock cleat are all at arms reach.

When I return to the dock I again try to have the wind pushing me into the dock, but ferrying as necessary to keep a bit of clearance. I sit by the stern cleat (as in leaving the dock) and aim for the stern of my boat to just touch the dock at the cleat I'm steering for, and as it comes in reach I put a loop around the cleat with that spring line and then tie off the bitter end to my stern real quick before the spring tightens and pushes the stern out. If I were to leave the boat for an extended period I would add a bow line and an after spring line.

Here are some more ideas on dock lines, some with and some without mid-ship cleats required. Me, I probably would not use them; I think spring lines should be springy and short lines aren't springy.
[thumb=1199] [thumb=1200] [thumb=1201] [thumb=1202]

[GreenLake]

..spring lines should be springy..

That summarizes it nicely. The longer the lines, the more give they have to absorb the peak loads in mooring.

In fact, for tying up at a dock, I'm always uncomfortable how short the stern line ends up. With the stern of the DS essentially parallel to the dock there are often just a few inches of line.

There are a couple of possible solutions. On a calm day in a sheltered dock I might not worry. Or, I might give the stern a bit more slack so the boat isn't parallel to the dock.

Or, some arrangement like on the rear half of this diagram.
[thumb=1200]
With a single bow line that would seem to be a workable arrangement for leaving the boat unattended during an excursion on land.

One of the docks I tie up on has very few cleats (and some of them missing - sounds familiar?) but a continuous wooden bar. You can tie up anywhere, but the downside is, that if you try that naively, you end up reeving the entire line under the bar, perhaps more than once.

One solution is the highwayman's hitch (see bottom of this page) or anything that works on the same principle. It also can be released with a single tug from inside the boat.

[hectoretc]

Hi guys
All of these drawings seem to imply forward side cleats. Per my midship cleat question, I have only a single forward cleat dead center on the forward deck.
It would seem that the bow line on several of the sketches would cause the line to chaff on the cuddly although I have not looked at these drawings while looking at the actual boat.

Do these discussions still apply with a single forward cleat, or rather than midship cleats, should I instead be thinking about forward side cleats (is there another term for those)?

Thanks

[GreenLake]

If the dock is higher than the cuddy deck, there would not be any problem with using the foredeck cleat as is. Otherwise, if your boat has a lip-cleat near the stemhead (mine does) you lead the line through that one - you'll get chafing at that location, but some chafe guard should fix that, and unlike the deck, the lip-cleat does not chafe through.

Finally, if all else fails, you could tie up to the bow eye.

[jdoorly]

From what I've seen the standard for DS's is a single bow cleat on centerline with a single Skene chock to starboard. Since I dock ambidextrously I moved the single chock on centerline just forward of the cleat; now it works both ways. Since I don't leave the boat docked or moored I don't worry about chafing. If you do have chafe worries there seems to be a plethora of products for sale with the traditional solution, short leather covers, being the cheapest and probably the best.

[Alan]

Cleat design and location may have been among those things that changed over the years. My 1980 DSII has a bow cleat on each side, just aft of the stemhead. They're made of the same material as the stern cleats (but a bit smaller), and appear to be original equipment.

[K.C. Walker]

I keep my Daysailer docked for a good part of the summer season, along with four other boats. None of them have a center cleat and I've not seen any need for one. The dock where I keep my Daysailer is a little exposed but not too bad. I've had no problem using three docking lines and an 8 inch Big B Taylor fender.

My recipe is to hang the 8 inch fender horizontally from the dock post so that it's below the rail and midship of the Daysailer. I use two lines from the stern cleat and one from the bow. One of the stern lines is a spring line. All the lines are at a diagonal to the dock, probably something like 45° or more oblique. I don't tie the boat all that tight to the dock so that it can ride the wave action. I tie the bow line tight enough so that the stern is kicked out a tad. That is, if the bow line is taught and the boat is pushed against the fender the stern is away from the dock.

Basically the boat rides on a single fender midship, the boat is curved enough that I can tie it so that it floats free but cannot contact the dock. The spring line is necessary to keep it in place fore and aft.

[ctenidae]

I've got 2 eyestraps, one on either side, mounted on the top of the cudy roof that gives a decent place to tie off a bumper. I don't, very often, but it does work.