Questions from a new DS II owner

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Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby klb67 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:06 am

This fall I acquired a 1976 DS II, #8039. By way of quick background, I have experience sailing a sunfish – the DS II is my next step up and a chance to get the family sailing together. I’ll have my boat on the water for the first time this spring with the help of someone from the local sailing club. I’m working on winter projects to get it ready and have a few questions. I have a few pictures of the boat, mostly before I did anything to it, at this link: https://picasaweb.google.com/100194009344180115029/DSII?authkey=Gv1sRgCPHA2bDHh7yOBw#

1. Softscrub? - The boat sat out for several years in a backyard. I tried several methods to clean the hull after removing the leaves and a few appliations of a powerwasher, particularly to remove the last of the mildew in the cockpit. The product that seems to work best is Softscrub. Are there any reasons NOT to use it? My gelcoat is fair - a bit chalky. I plan to polish the outer hull this spring.

2. Stock boom vang attachment or bail? - My boat did not come with a boom vang. I got a bargain on a Ronstan 4:1 boom vang. I’ll attach the lower block to the mast with line. My boom is set up for the stock DS boom vang with the swaged ball on wire. It seems that my options are to source the swaged ball/wire component (I found a source that will make it if I can't get just that part from DR Marine) or drill out the 6 rivets on the boom and install a bail. Other than the obvious more sturdy attachment using a bail, are there advantages to either set up? If it matters, the boat didn’t come with any blocks, so I also got a good after-market mainsheet block, etc. for the centerboard trunk and will run mid-boom sheeting.

3. Paint? - The prior owner repaired the drain at the back of the transom, and the resin/fiberglass has a mustard yellow color to it (shown in one of the pics). If possible, I’d like to grind the rough repair smoother, and apply some form of whiteish paint to at least make it blend better. I know it won’t match the gelcoat. I also know that area will lie wet at times. Any product recommendations, or should I leave it alone? (I’ve done some research on hull repair techniques, paint, gelcoat, etc. – I’m looking specifically for recommendations for this area and exposure to water).

4. Leave ballast in? - The prior owner customized the boat a bit, including raising the mast about 2’ (see the second pic, when we raised the sail before I bought the boat), for better clearance under the boom (so I was told by the seller). At the advice of a local sailor and shop, I removed the pipe and hardware and restored the mast to stock height. When I went to inspect the bilge, I found two trash bags full of heavy 1.5” pieces of metal of some sort that he used as ballast (one is shown in a pic). As an experienced sunfish sailer but new daysailer sailer – is there an advantage to leaving the ballast in for now? I was inclined to remove it to get a better look at the bilge area and the centerboard bolt. Once I dig it out (piece by piece, through the inspection port), it’s not going back in. If it might help me in the early learning stages, I’ll leave it for now. Also, does anyone have any idea what he used for ballast? I’m stumped.

5. Cabin color? - Finally, the cabin is painted a dark green, and some of the paint is flaking. Would the cabin have been white from the factory?

I’m sure there will be more questions, but that’s enough for now. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Kevin

P.S. My application to the Day Sailer Association will be in the mail shortly.
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby jeadstx » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:11 pm

Your boat is real close in sail number to mine. I have a 1976, sail number 8075.
Image
Mine, when i got it was dirty, but not near as much as yours. A good power wash took care of most of my dirt. D&R is a good source of all the parts for the DS2. It looks like the previous owner put a new self bailer in the stern, something I still need to replace.

It is good to restore the mast to the correct height. The boom has plenty of height with the standard mast. As far as the extra ballast in the bilge, it is not needed. I put new flotation in my bilge using "pool noodles". The previous owner of my boat had removed most of my flotation. Personally, I would remove the extra ballast.

My deck and cuddy cabin are the original white. Yours was probably white as well.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby klb67 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:02 pm

Thanks for the response John. I searched for images of a 1976 DS II and saw the pics of your boat, and studied them for rigging and what I might be missing. I was also trying to figure out how you carry your boom on your mast.

My wife solved the mystery of what the ballast is - the music teacher at her school quickly ID'd them as piano tuning pins. As new ones seem to go for about a buck a piece, I'll be removing the lot from my bilge (there are hundreds, easily) to offset the sailboat fund.
1976 DSII - #8039
klb67
 
Posts: 136
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Location: Gibsonia, PA (near Pittsburgh)

Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby jeadstx » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:16 pm

The mast support in the stern has been shortened from when that picture was taken, about half that height. My latest support also has a separate support for the boom.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
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Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:44 pm

Softscrub is mild abrasive. If you plan to polish the boat anyway, that wouldn't worry me. If you use a graduated series of polishing agents from rubbing compound to 3M's "Finesse It" you should be able to polish the gelcoat to a near gloss when done. Some "flavors" of softscrub come with (chlorine) bleach. Yes, it's effective, but it also attacks the gelcoat, said to enlarge the pores. How important that is when you are going to polish it later, I can't tell.

Unsightly Repair. If the repair was done with an polyester, there would be no issue in simply using a gelcoat repair kit. If the repair was done with an unknown epoxy based product, your gelcoat may not adhere well. The yellowing looks like it might be epoxy that's been allowed to deteriorate in the UV. One thing you could do, is grind a bit further to make room for a layer of very well measured and mixed epoxy. If that cures well, is cleaned well with soapy water and sanded for "grip", gelcoat should stick. (Bad mixture with left over hardener or resin is supposedly the main culprit in the "gelcoat doesn't stick to epoxy" story. If the spot were larger, you might even procure a bottle of SB112 from System Three, which is formulated for use with a gelcoat finish).

Matching Color Gelcoat repair kits come in several slightly off-white colors or you can get some that you can tint yourself with special tints. (Matching tints is a matter of patience, including some experimentation to see whether the apparent tint changes as the gelcoat cures, and if so, whether it gets lighter or darker and by how much). The trick with gelcoat is that you either need to mix paraffin into it or cover it with foil to exclude air, which would leave the gelcoat sticky. There's also clear (neutral) gel coat that is pre-mixed to cure in air. I've used the latter over weathered and partially failing paint inside the bottom of my DS and it created a very durable layer. Also worked well in those spots where the previous paint/gel coat had been rubbed through to the laminate.

Paint Given the location, any paint that's rated for below the waterline should work. If standing water has a chance to dry off at least once every other day, then most topside paints should work well. I've used Pettit EasyPoxy on my rudder rebuild. It can be tinted with standard tints from the paint store (if you have a matching sample, something transportable like a piece of the rudder, if it's in a matching shade, then they should even be able to tint it for you). For my hull repaint I have used it for the transom, and I've painted the bottom of a silverware drawer in my kitchen, where the cheap formica had been nicked - it's stood up to that abuse quite well, even though it appears to be quite soft initially - perhaps it has an extended cure time.

Priming Since the repair is of unknown composition, you need to prime this well. Some paints can be applied on top of neat epoxy, which works well if you can squeegee it on (brushing or rolling leaves patterns that can't be sanded out w/o sanding through the layer you just put on).

So much for a few ideas.

Good luck.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby jdoorly » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:35 pm

Welcome Kevin. When I saw the pictures of your boat I said to myself "What fun!" and I remembered all the enjoyment I had 'messin' with my DS2 and bringing it back to life.

I'd say the ballast was probably added to offset the higher heeling forces due to the higher mast. But you might use it to make the boat a little slower but alot more stable while you 'learn the ropes'. Don't get me wrong the DS is a great boat and fast and unusually stable for a centerboarder. But that's the problem with learning to sail on it- it has the manners of a centerboarder, unlike a slow to heel keel boat, and you need quick reflexes to ease the mainsheet and/or hike out to adjust for a sudden gust, which always seems to happen when your out trying to get a loved one to like sailing.

Have fun!
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:06 pm

Mast 2' additional height is a lot. I agree, it would mostly end up heeling your boat. In some conditions wind speed increases rapidly as you reach higher, but the effect would not net out the additional weight (in my estimate). Another case of "what were they thinking?".?

If you lower the mast, all your stays need to be adjusted as well.

I think you should be fine learning on the DS.

BlocksThere are a few things that are useful when you have to update things anyway. One is to fit ratchet blocks for the main. Often, they get installed in the swivel but if you've replaced that already, then put one or two in as replacements for other blocks through which the mainsheet is lead along the boom. I use 55mm Ronstan autoratchets set to automatic. They make it easier to hold the mainsheet when loaded, so you are not tempted to cleat it. That makes the "quick reaction" much easier. (Jib cars can be fit with ratchets (40mm) as well).

Many other types of upgrades are possible, but my advice would be to get to know the boat while reading the back articles here in the forum.

[b]Cabin paint[/b} Reason for painting things like the deck include the desire to change the color (my DS had a truly hideous 60's color scheme :shock: so I'm glad a PO decided to paint the deck). Or the reason can be the desire to hide flaws in the gelcoat. The hull on my boat was painted for that reason, and I've repainted it since (after using a more generous amount of fairing compound).

Incidentally, if you are interested in "test results" for various paints, the goto source is "Practical Sailor". If you subscribe tot he publication (no ads) you get access to their full suite of previous tests online. You'll find discussion of cleaning agents, paints etc. Some stuff is geared towards owners of big boats, but makes enjoyable reading anyway.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby Bob Damon » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:17 pm

Good luck with your new boat. There is a product called Iron Out that works great on leaf stains and water stains. It is available at Lowe's. It can be applied directly to heavy stains but I find putting some in a bucket with water and applying it and waiting a few minutes before hosing off works well. You should wear gloves if directly applying it (I usually use a long handled soft brush). Again Good Luck and welcome to the Day Sailer family!
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby klb67 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:48 pm

Thanks for all of the info.

I ended up with a 5 gallon bucket, half full, of piano tuning keys. Has to be more than 50 pounds. Bilge area looks good from what I can see. The center board hardware is well coated in silicone - hopefully that means it's sealed, and not that it was a last-ditch unsuccessful effort to stop a leak. We'll find out this spring.

Any thoughts on my boom vang question? I think everything else has been covered. I'll leave the doghouse green inside for now, although it's dark. Someday I'll make it white again. I'm fairly sure the bilge fix that's yellowed is resin that's been exposed to sun too long. I may try a topside paint. I know there isn't an easy fix.
1976 DSII - #8039
klb67
 
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Yellowed epoxy is also breaking down.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby jdoorly » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:11 pm

The stock boom vang is a 3 to 1 weak little ditty that was popular way back when. I tried mine once. Those who are serious about mainsail shape tend to use much stronger ratios and multi purchase rigs to 20 to 1.

Now, in an effort to prolong this thread and increase winter posting activity (for my own amusement): I'm a bit worried about why a PO (previous owner) had to patch that particular spot. What could have happened there that would require a patch like that? And if a patch was necessary but the epoxy was left exposed to UV and is now some fraction of its original strength perhaps it should be ground off and laid fresh. What say ye?
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby Alan » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:01 am

Jay,

Judging by the quantity of leaves in the first photo, I'd guess the boat spent several years in the weather.

Let's say the PO jacked up the front end of the trailer and left the self-bailer open so any collected water could drain. The leaves clogged the bailer, the water collected, sat there for several years, froze and thawed over the seasons, and the fiberglass delaminated.
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby klb67 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:50 pm

He actually had a homemade strainer covering the bailer area, and the bow was raised high, so I think the hull remained relatively free of standing water for the most part. It had not been touched in a few years, was full of leaves, but not water, when I picked it up (and it had been raining a lot those few days). It was not covered, obviously. The bilge plug was pulled and I stopped on the first steep hill I found to see if I was getting any water out of the bilge- just a little.

If the fiberglass has delaminated, that area should be soft, correct? I expected to find soft spots when I saw the leaves, but I didnt' find any upon my pre-purchase inspection (the first thing I did was move some of the leaves to assess the hull) and I haven't found any yet - the floor is quite solid. I assume the repair was done when the bailer was replaced. When I grind it more smooth, I'll definately look closely at the condition of the repair to see if it should be replaced.

On the boom vang, I'll have 4:1 now with much better blocks than factory, and could certainly add more to get more power if needed. The specific decision is whether there is a benefit to keeping the swaged ball set up or drilling out and removing the factory bracket and connnecting the upper block to a new bail instead.
1976 DSII - #8039
klb67
 
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:28 pm

Can't help you on the attachment issue for the vang. Have you searched the forum yet - there have been some discussions that mention boom bails for the vang. You may need to use an external search engine and limit search to this site to get better results. The built-in search is iffy, like all such in-forum tools.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Questions from a new DS II owner

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:33 pm

If you are worried, grind off the top layer and put one more layer of cloth on there, overlapping the edge of the repair. That would make sure that you have a bit of extra strength and what's most important, watertight integrity (It's "only" an inner hull, so that's why I would not suggest you replace things wholesale, also it's easier to lay cloth if you have a surface to work on). And paint the result really well.
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