Careen to paint bottom?

[fatire]

I'm reading two things on this forum that conflict:
1) Careening is easy
2) Careening breaks things

I have an older DSII that has bottom paint on it that I want to renew.
I was thinking careening on the lawn and doing a side at a time might eliminate body aches from lying under the boat.

Or I suppose I could get a couple friends to help me and turtle it completely, supporting so the cuddy doesn't take any weight.

Your experience and recommendations would be valued.

Thanks
Steve

[K.C. Walker]

Steve,

I'm in the careening is easy camp. I did extensive work fairing and putting on an epoxy barrier coat to the bottom of my boat. Not having to bend over a turtled boat or crawl under a boat and have stuff falling in your face is nice. I launched on grass and did not break a thing, and can't see that that's likely, unless you launch on gravel. Photos of me suited up, working on the boat http://www.walkerguitars.com/photos/day ... dlaunched/ .

[GreenLake]

I've done both. If you have the space so you can raise the mast and use it as a lever, it's an easy one-person job to dry launch, careen (and then later retrieve). I recommend carpets, even if you launch on grass.

I did re-fair and repaint the entire hull with the boat turned over and on blocks. That took three people. It allowed the boat to be indoors to be worked on, a definite plus in certain seasons. Upside is that the entire hull is accessible, downside is that everything that's normally above the waterline will be a vertical surface and requires bending to reach it.

For a quick pass repaint, careening is fine, for the more extensive work we did, I was happy working with the boat upside down. Both beat any attempts at working underneath an upright boat.

[Breakin Wind]

I'm reading two things on this forum that conflict:
1) Careening is easy
2) Careening breaks things

No conflict for me... Careening "is" easy, and Careening "can" break things,
Therefore that just means it's "easy to break things" which is totally consistent with my experiences

[fatire]

Okay so I should have said "I'm conflicted about careening due to possible breakage."
I have a tabernacle so that's concern 1 I guess.
I suppose the appropriate procedure would be to step mast and attach all shrouds to help share the loads.
Then I'm guessing that the mast pressure on the cuddy rough could be another area.
Jump in here anytime BW!

[GreenLake]

If you use the jib halyard to pull the boat over, the load is placed at the point of the mast stabilized by the stays. The force that you are applying is less, considerably less than that the sails apply to heel a fully rigged and crewed boat (especially with the crew on the rail, hiking out). If mast or stays sustain damage from careening, be happy you didn't sail the boat

You would tension the shrouds and forestay the same amount you'd use for sailing. Once the boat is laid over, a very small force (comparatively) will hold it in position. Something corresponding to the weight of a typical concrete block...

The hull is a different matter. I do advise the use of carpeting, because the hull will be supported on a small area, taking much higher loads locally than if you have the boat in the water. However, experience has shown that the DS does not normally sustain damage from that - the hull is beefy enough. So the main point of using a bit of carpet is to prevent damage due to something small and hard scratching the hull or cracking the gelcoat.

Good luck - don't overthink this, get your paint on and go sailing!

[Breakin Wind]

Okay so I should have said "I'm conflicted about careening due to possible breakage."
I have a tabernacle so that's concern 1 I guess.
I suppose the appropriate procedure would be to step mast and attach all shrouds to help share the loads.
Then I'm guessing that the mast pressure on the cuddy rough could be another area.
Jump in here anytime BW!

Hi Steve,

When I got my boat the summer before last, I was concerned about the centerboard and therefore needed to yard launch and careen my boat to get at it. Yard launching gave me some trouble because the trailer wasn't set up well, and the boat didn't want to slide off the bunks. Once down however, I was absolutely amazed how easy it was to pull it over on the side using the main halyard. GL suggested the jib halyard above, and so that might be a better line to use. It was also suggested to me, to put a couple life jackets along the hull seam to protect it, which I did.
When I was done, easing it back up was a breeze.
Just take your time and have an extra set if hands nearby just in case.
It'll go fine.
Good luck - Scott

[ChrisB]

Steve,

I've careened my boat several times and never had a problem. I even careened it at the dock because I got the CB stuck with milfoil weeds and could not get the board all the way up or drop it down.
I agree with Greenlake; if something breaks during careening, you should be glad you discovered it on shore. Careening will never approach the loads the mast and shrouds see under sail. I place all the fenders, life jackets, throwables, and whatever else I have on hand under the side of the hull that will be sitting on the ground to distribute the weight of the boat over the largest possible area.

[Merlin-2977]

I have found carreening to be easy. I put a piece of carpet on the ground to protect the stern. Tip up the tongue of the trailer till the stern touches the carpet. Pull the trailer out from under the boat till the front of the centerboard trunk is past the end of the trailer. Place a tire under the boat positioned on the centerline even with forward edge of the centerboard trunk. Then pull the trailer out the rest of the way. The boat should balance perfectly for and aft on the tire. I pull the boat over on its side using the Spinnaker halyard onto two more tires. One placed just aft of the shrouds and one just forward of the stern such that when pulled over the boat is support by the two tires. This protects the rub rail. Of course the mast should be up and the stays attached before taking the boat off the trailer. Tie the spinnaker halyard of to something heavy. However, the mast is long enough that a cinder block tied to the top of the mast or a tire slipped over the top will hold the boat in place. I used my son's moveable basketball hoop (tied to the weighted base) for more security. When you tip the boat back up just make sure the boat is centered over the one tire. When it is time to put the boat back on the trailer have someone site on the stern so that it touches the ground raising the bow making it easier to get the trailer under the boat.

[GreenLake]

You may find that tilting up the trailer helps in retrieving. I have a break-back trailer, and very quickly found that it would tilt too far on its own. So I put a strap in place that acted as a limiter. With that, keel and trailer aligned quite well during retrieval. (Incidentally, the same angle works well when launching / retrieving from the water). When yard launching, the one difference is that the trailer moves, not the boat.

[GreenLake]

@merlin77: the trick with the tires is clever. It also positions the boat 6-8" higher off the ground when careened, which can make a difference (whether positive or negative would depend on your height).

[jeadstx]

I've carrened my boat once while beached to unjam the CB. Since we were camp/cruising we unloaded the boat first of camping gear and supplies. Others in the group were there to assist. We used the main halyard. The boat came over very easy. Someone just kept a foot on the mast head while we worked on the CB. Very little presure was need to keep the boat on it's side. The CB trunk had mud, weeds and shells in it that prevented the BC from working. The careening process was easy.

I need to redo the bottom on my boat as well, but don't have a good area careen the boat on my lot due to trees, rocks, etc. Anyone have a good idea on rolling the boat over without using the mast?

John

[swiftsail]

Hi All,
I do this at least twice a season to wax the bottom. The one trick I have not seen posted is to put a 2x4, about 24" long, just under the lip of the rub rail at the point at which the boat pivots on the ground to protect the rub rail from breaking down.

Steve

[Alan]

"Anyone have a good idea on rolling the boat over without using the mast?"

Somewhere on this board there's a thread where the people used an engine hoist. They placed a block on the end of the hoist boom, then ran a loop of rope through the block and around the boat. They lifted the boat, then had a person at each end roll it over. The loop of rope passed through the block as the boat was being rolled. They said it worked, and it looked like it would.

The thread has a photo, but unfortunately I can't find it.

[K.C. Walker]

Alan,

You might be thinking of an article in the DaySailer Quarterly by Dave Keran.