Jib car tracks

For issues common to different models of DaySailer.
Except Rigging and Sails.

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby Alan » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:54 pm

Thanks, GL. I think I 'll print that in large type, laminate it with clear contact paper, and place it prominently on the cuddy for those "Yipes, now what?" moments that plague novice sailors.
Alan
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby GreenLake » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:47 pm

Another thing you could do is to put marks on your boat for some of the trim settings. For example I put some tape on the deck to mark the maximum in-haul position for the barber haulers - alternatively, you could mark the line where it exits the cleat. Similar thing could be done for sheets and halyards in their correct positions.

Now, if you retype the instructions before laminating them, or put them in your own words, you'll cement them in your memory. You might end up organizing them in a better scheme than what I put in my post. Good luck!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby Moose » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:04 am

Hello,

At Alan's request I am commenting on the set-up on my Daysailer 3 which has factory coaming top tracks. please note that I did not read the entire thread and may repeat something someone already said, etc.

I really like having the top mounted tracks. I have had a Daysailer 2 and remember it being awkward, although I didn't sail it much. My favorite thing to do is sit right behind the cuddy bulkhead with my back against the seat back and one arm up along the coaming and the other up on the cuddy top, best seat on-board. The ideal set-up would be coaming mounted cam cleats that lock in the up position, opposite of factory. It can be tough to get the cleats to lock at some angles but I think it's better than having to lock them way down on the CB trunk. The top mount gives you some adjustment that the seat back style doesn't. The seatback style's lead angle doesn't really change because it hits the coaming/cuddy but the top mounted will (a little. 12" tracks aren't very long).

The Daysailer three is a much different design than the 1 or 2 though. It is meant to have top mounted tracks. The coaming is low and wide (comfortable to sit on too) and has a little recess to mount the track in. The coaming does not act as a lever when the jib is loading the car mounted on top. Now, it's fair to say the DS 2 can probably handle the load and I think O'day did mount them there from the factory on later DS2 models.

One of the original tracks on my boat broke at the end of last season and I am considering replacing everything. The options that I have found that will replace factory directly are:

D&R marine...........Seem to be Ronstan 19 series, slightly more expensive.
Ronstan 19 series....Same as factory with newer cleat leads and cleats, probably lock better.
Harken 16mm........hard Anodized aluminum i track and cars, cleats are at slight angle to bullseye leads to improve lead in and locking. Expensive & beautiful.

Other stacks would fit the DS2 because there isn't a molded in area for the track/car.

So, I suggest doing it if you can.

Hope that helps,
Moose
Moose
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:07 pm
Location: Fairhaven, Ma

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby talbot » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:39 pm

Thanks for the contribution on the DS III (a boat I admire, class rules or no). Also for the advice on track options.

When I think of winning the lottery and happily wasting the rest of my life, I sometimes imagine finding a derelict DS III and taking a year to incorporate all my own modifications from 25 years of DS II's, plus several innovations people have discussed on the forum, plus some others that I'm afraid to talk about in public. I think with about 2,000 hours and $10,000, I could come up with more or less the same boat I have now, but with a couple of inches more freeboard aft. That seems like a pretty good deal, doesn't it?
talbot
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby Moose » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:59 am

talbot,

The DSIII is sort of taboo, but the freeboard makes the boat feel safe, dry, and gives it a nice keel-boat look. A lot of the modifications people make to DS11's are incorporated and the top mold makes it a more comfortable boat.

Thanks,
Moose
Moose
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:07 pm
Location: Fairhaven, Ma

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby Alan » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:26 am

Thanks, Moose. That does help, a lot.

I should note that my crew is in wholehearted agreement with you about the most comfortable seat in the boat. :)

I looked at the Harken hardware you mentioned. Yes, it's beautiful, and yes, it's expensive. I think I'll be happy with the Ronstan bits. (By the way, D&R's price includes track end caps, even though they don't show in the photo on the D&R website.)

For now I'm going to try the cars on top of the coamings ("now" being July, which will be my first chance to sail this year). I'm less likely to get tangled up in in-haulers than in sheets that cross the cockpit to cleat at the centerboard.

If it doesn't work, as Tom says, it's easy to switch back.
Alan
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby talbot » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:17 pm

I know. That makes it particularly intriguing.

Moose wrote:The DSIII is sort of taboo . . . .
talbot
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:04 am

I went with Harken tracks a long time ago (the factory ones snapped on the maiden voyage, and Harken was what the local store had in stock in that size). Haven't noticed any "aging", so they are overbuilt :) ... or in other words, you'll recoup your investment over a long lifetime.

That said, I'm sure the Ronstan ones aren't any worse. In my experience, the Ronstan h/w I have always gives off a slightly less "solid" feel than the Harken stuff from the same design generation, but that hasn't stopped me from buying whichever suited my purpose best. I don't stress my equipment enough to be able to really tell a difference in durability or function.

I would look past the track and cars to the blocks or block/cleat combination that you can put on them. There may be some differences there that seem minor but can spell the difference between something that is a joy vs, something that's a slight irritation because it's not quite intuitive.

The one place, for example, where I like Ronstan is their ratchet blocks. Just like the feel of them over the Harken. Or maybe it's the sound they make, who knows. I just know I like one and not the other and it would have been foolish to ignore that when making the purchase. I was lucky to be able to check both of them out in store, they even had a sample mainsheet rigged to demonstrate the ratchet action - something you don't get when shopping online.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby diffusion » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:25 pm

thomasglossop wrote:I added the tracks to the coaming as seen in the picture. After cutting the inspection ports I was able to cut a narrow piece of the 1x8 plastic wood trim I used to make the spar carrying system out of (no rotting with this stuff) and used it as a backing plate. The inside surface was pretty smooth and based on the attachment of the original tracks (which I left in place) it should hold just fine.

Had one sail so far in about 15mph and for the "cruising" sailing I do it is perfect! It clears the seating for my wife or a guest to relax and enjoy. Added benefit, the sheets in the new hardware run like butter. I also replaced my original 3:1 mainsheet system with a D&R 4:1, highly recommended. That also runs like butter.


Thomas,

What brand & size deck plates did you use in the cockpit sides for your internal access? I'm considering a similar project on my DS2.
DSII #10721
diffusion
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:27 pm

GreenLake wrote:The one place, for example, where I like Ronstan is their ratchet blocks. Just like the feel of them over the Harken. Or maybe it's the sound they make, who knows. I just know I like one and not the other and it would have been foolish to ignore that when making the purchase. I was lucky to be able to check both of them out in store, they even had a sample mainsheet rigged to demonstrate the ratchet action - something you don't get when shopping online.


Just found out (in a magazine review) that the holding power is double that of the competition, but the downside is some chafe on the line. Acceptable tradeoff as far as I am concerned. I've added ratchets to my jib cars this year and I don't notice that they are there - that is a good thing, because before I was wishing I had some :)


1818
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby Alan » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:44 pm

diffusion,

I don't remember the brand and I'm away from the boat, but I used 4-inch deck plates on my DSII. They worked fine.
Alan
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby talbot » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:20 pm

Not sure why the comment about deck plates is on this thread. However, last week someone at a local wooden-boat show asked about tracks and cars. Whatever ratchet blocks or cams you use, consider Race-Lite cars from DuckWorks (a DIY boatbuilding site). Less expensive than competing products from Ronstan/Schaefer/Harken -- and, they are made in the small gauge used on our boats.
talbot
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby diffusion » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:28 pm

talbot wrote:Not sure why the comment about deck plates is on this thread. However, last week someone at a local wooden-boat show asked about tracks and cars. Whatever ratchet blocks or cams you use, consider Race-Lite cars from DuckWorks (a DIY boatbuilding site). Less expensive than competing products from Ronstan/Schaefer/Harken -- and, they are made in the small gauge used on our boats.


I asked about deck plates because the OP posted a picture showing how he had installed deck plates to gain access inside the coamings in order to install his new jib car tracks. I'm planning on replacing my jib car tracks and have the same concern of access, so it seemed like an on-topic post.

Alan, thanks for the info. I was wondering if 4" plates would provide adequate space to be able to reach far enough inside to reach all the track bolts.
DSII #10721
diffusion
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby talbot » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:49 pm

Ah, yes. Got it. I vote for 6". On my first DSII, I put in 4" plates, and found the access difficult. Larger plates on my next boat made the work much easier. Also, do whatever work is needed before you install the plate ring. Not only does the ring reduce the diameter of the hole, but the inner edge often has a sharp edge that can leave your forearms bloody.

I think there may be another thread on the forum that discusses the problem of O'Day's wavy hull surface. It's likely the seat backs will not be flat. They tend to be concave fore and aft and top to bottom. You may need to do some shimmng to get a good fit. If you force the inspection plate ring to conform to the uneven surface, the plate won't screw in or out easily, and over time, the ring itself will crack. I, um, know this for a fact.

Talbot
DSII 6546 Blue Moon
talbot
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: Jib car tracks

Postby jeadstx » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:03 pm

When I re-did my jib tracks, I installed 5" ports. 6" seemed a little too big. When I did my oarlocks I used 4" and they were definately too small. As Talbot commented, do the work before installing the ring, much easier to do the work. I didn't encounter a wavy surface, perhaps I was lucky.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Previous

Return to Repair and Improvement

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests

cron