reducing weight aloft

[K.C. Walker]

While considering replacing my mast with a carbon fiber mast at half the weight of my present mast I was reading about the performance gains of reducing weight aloft. This, of course, is one of the reasons that a tapered aluminum mast is preferable to a straight mast. So, one does get some weight savings from the wedge of aluminum that is taken out of the mast section to taper it, but you also get a lighter masthead because it's smaller. And of course the masthead is at the very end of the lever arm so would have the most affect. Selden makes a composite lightweight masthead for straight mast sections, so someone thinks it's important.

The question in my mind is, for those that have straight masts, why don't we drill out our present mastheads to lighten them? It doesn't seem like they would need all of the strength that is cast into them. Is there a reason not to drill them out? Would it make enough difference to be worth it?

[TIM WEBB]

Wow, that's heavy KC. Would it matter if the MH was for internal vs. external halyards? Some DS's have internal, correct? Or is that forbidden under class rules? Feeling too lazy at the moment to look it up ...

[K.C. Walker]

Wow, that's heavy KC.

I suppose that I was asking for that one!

[TIM WEBB]

Yeah, I know, I made a "funny" ala George Carlin (?), but it was actually a serious question, as far as drilling lightening holes ... ?

Would there be room to drill on a MH for a tapered mast? Is there even room on a MH for a tapered mast for internal halyards?

Dunno, cuz I've never seen one in person ...

Serious racers? Mike G?

[K.C. Walker]

I think on the racing setups, internal halyards are standard practice, and especially with the tapered mast. I suppose going to an internal halyard on the straight mast you could eliminate one sheave and cut that part of the casting off.

[Salty Dog]

I noticed that my sheaves were worn out on my mast head and I ordered a new one. I will put it on when I'm down at the lake latter. I was wandering if I should put some floatation in the mast while I have it off, or would that add too much weight. Has anyone else added some? Maybe a noodle?

[GreenLake]

Go for the flotation. Noodle sounds good. However, not sure you need to take the masthead off - didn't need to do that on mine for replacing the sheaves.

[jeadstx]

It would be wise to take the mast head off if you are spraying in foam for flotation in the mast head. When I sprayed in flotation in the mast head I didn't remove the mast head and the foam expanded up into the sheaves and really made a mess. Took me a while to clean everything off the mast head and get the sheaves working again. I also plugged any old holes in the mast from places where hardware had been attached over the years. My mast was replaced by the previous owner with a DS1 mast, so my mast is probably older than the rest of the boat.

I have to say that the foam in the mast head has proved to be a good idea. When I capsized during the 2012 Tx200, the mast hit bottom (7' to 9' deep water), but rose back to the surface. After we sailed to the end point of the event the next day, we found after getting the boat on the trailer and taking down the mast that there was mud all over the mast head. The mud could only have gotten on the mast head by coming in contact with the bottom. The two feet of foam in the mast head provided enough flotation to bring the end of the mast back up.

John

[TIM WEBB]

John, same thing happened to me when I sprayed expanding foam into the top of the mast, through the masthead, but I had removed the halyard and sheaves first. It gushed up through the masthead as it expanded/dried, so I just waited until it was fully dry, then cut out the overflow with a knife ...

Glad to hear you feel that it helped your mast "re-surface" tho!

I've yet to test my combination of mast floatation/mainsail head foam thingy, and I might never get around to doing so in a "controlled manner", so it's good to know that it "might" work ...

I think what GL is saying is that masthead removal is not necessary for sheave replacement?

Salty: is it just your sheaves that are worn, or have the sheave pins (axles? different term anyone?) hogged out/elongated the holes in the masthead? If it's the latter, then yes, you'd need to replace it.

[Salty Dog]

I was replacing my main halyard and I noticed that the sheaves were worn flat to the axles almost like they had froze up at some time and the line worn into them. However they seemed to roll free now. measured the sheaves and was going to try to find some. I looked on D&R and saw Masthead sheaves but they showed to be smaller than I had measured by 1/16" they were like maybe $5 a piece I don't remember. I also saw that there was a masthead with sheaves for $32, I called and talked to a guy Named Rudy and he said that if I did not have a tapered mast it should fit so I ordered it. I was going to have it sent to the lake and paid for 2 day shipping so I could put it on and go sailing while I was there but it went to my house in Midland and now I will have to wait till I'm down to the lake again to replace it and see if it fits. I was thinking that if I have it off It would be a good time to put floatation in the mast If it did not cause too much weight aloft. I like the Idea of the foam but I not sure how to get it all the way down the mast. With out drilling holes.

I want to put some noodles in the bilge also but I have 2 questions.

I had some noodles for my swimming pool before and after a couple of years they started to desintergrate. I would hate for that to happen in my boat.

If you put a lot of floatation in the bilge would it have a tendancy to float the bilge to the top during a capsize and therefor increase the chance of a turtle and make it harder to force the bilge back down into the water and make it harder to right.

If you have a good water tight hull you would have the same thing so it may not matter.

I am for sure going to put some hikeing straps on my boat. Has anyone ever figured out how to hike out with out it being a pain in the a**. I think I'm going to invent me some hikeing butt pads . Maybe like knee pads with the Velcro straps. That way you can un strap them when you go up to get your TROPHY!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I may be suffering from withdrawals.......I may have to plan some sailing soon.

[K.C. Walker]

Salty,

I don't have any actual experience so I'm sort of thinking out loud here. The spray in foam that I have seen aged seems to have deteriorate with age, so not the highest quality foam. If you do spray in foam and it goes bad you'd have a heck of a time removing it, I would think. Aluminum masts get pretty dang hot out in the sun and I would suspect that spray in foam would deteriorate and lose its adhesion to the aluminum fairly quickly. If you were to ever get water in your mast it would likely be impossible to get it all out, especially if the foam was not 100% adhered to the aluminum, which is unlikely. This would be particularly bad if it were saltwater. Myself, I would not do it.

The Allspar mast that I have has plugs that are made of two lightweight aluminum plates with foam between them and a screw that goes through the middle to squeeze the foam tight into the mast. I have to believe that they were original. It seems to me it would be easy enough to use some high-quality closed cell foam and cut a gasket/bulkhead and install it with a little bit of sealant to make plugs. There's nothing lighter than air, unless you are going to use helium. Anything else is going to be heavier and sink more than a well sealed mast. It should be easy enough to find and seal any other possible leaks on the mast.

How much would it help to have foam flotation in your mast in case you did have a leak? I'm's skeptical as to how much it would help. If you have a couple of feet of foam and the rest of the mast fills with water, it's going down. And, 99.999% of the time you would be paying the price for extra weight aloft.

As I said, I have no practical experience, just the way I view it.

You don't have to reinvent hiking shorts with pads, they already exist.

[Salty Dog]

KC

Where can I find some of these Hiking britches?

[K.C. Walker]

I knew I should've included a link http://www.apsltd.com/c-3910-sailing-padded.aspx .

[Breakin Wind]

Regarding the deteriorating noodles and spray foam. I think either someone told me ( here ?) or I just arrived at the conclusion that both the foam and noodles may be designed to deteriorate in sunshine (not UV stabilized) so they don't survive for 10,000 years in the landfill or where- ever. At least I think its true for the noodles because I bought multiple dozens of them one week when they were mis-priced in a local store. I put a bunch I'm my DS for floatations, made a swim area floating marker/barrier and left the rest in the garage.
Even after just a year, the noodles that were substantially in the sun are falling apart, but the ones in my boat and garage are like new.

I don't know if that applies to spray foam too, but it seems reasonable that it would.

Thanks- Scott

[Salty Dog]

Thanks Scott That makes sence. My noodles that fell apart saw lots of sun.

Thanks KC I think I will get me some of those shorts.

SD



this is when I took my two nieces out to show them how to sail