New trailer

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New trailer

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:33 pm

Well, the old, rusted-out trailer finally gave up the ghost, so TRW has a nice new one, custom fitted to her. Tows, launches and retrieves like a dream! Torsion axles, proper bunks, etc.

The old trailer had a roller right up against the CB slot, for the CB to ride on, allowing the uphaul to be released so that it wouldn't be shock-loaded when going over bumps in the road. This one has a center bunk for the CB to ride on. It sits a lot lower now. Anyone see any problem with this arrangement?

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Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New trailer

Postby Mike Gillum » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:21 pm

Sounds like the absolutely perfect trailer for your DS as you want it to carry all of the boat weight on the trailer using the strongest part of the boat which is the centerline.
The better idea would be to ditch the forward roller and continue the existing centerline support all the way forward to the bow post/mast support area supporting most of the bottom centerline of your boat!
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Re: New trailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:20 pm

Tim,

That looks like a great trailer. It's always nice to give the witch a good broomstick. I agree with Mike about supporting the centerline as much as you can. If you have room to lower the outside bunks down so that you could have her rest on the center bunk that would be great. If not, you could raise the center bunk or do a little of both.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: New trailer

Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:34 pm

Thanks guys! I can't lower the outer bunks because of the wheel fenders (old trailer didn't have any), but I might be able to raise/extend the center bunk. Or rather, have it done by B&G: I'm sure I'll be bringing it back to them for some "tweaking" at some point, which they do at no extra charge - one of the reasons I went with them in the first place. They are very knowledgeable about setting up trailers for sailboats, but had never done one for a DS before, so I give 'em a bit of a "pass" ...

Love the broomstick analogy KC! ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
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Re: New trailer

Postby klb67 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:02 pm

Tim,

Your trailer looks great. I would think how you have it set up would be just fine. My next to-do this April is to get the boat out of winter storage, get it off the trailer, and to refurbish the trailer. I have the set up to easily lift the boat off the trailer and the equipment available to sandblast/strip and repaint the trailer. But seeing your new trailer makes me think that would be so much easier to do for not much more money in the grand scheme of things. With a new trailer, though, I might have more money in that than in the boat itself.
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: New trailer

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:17 pm

I have rollers instead of a center bunk, and the scheme that works best for me is to have the rear-most roller dropped and with a center notch. I drive the trailer until that roller is just breaking the surface. I can then "catch" the bow with the notch and that allows me to line up the boat. The other rollers are raised high enough to where they take most of the load.

Curiously, before I dropped the rearmost roller, the boat had a tendency to "swim off" the rollers. With the change, it's been loading true on first try.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New trailer

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:18 pm

Thanks klb! At this point in the journey, I'd have to say that I just broke even w/ trailer expenses vs. boat expenses ... ;-P

I am very fortunate to have a place like B&G Trailers close by, and their knowledge and experience saved me a lot of time and money, versus if I had tried to find a used trailer on craigslist or similar, that I would have had to spend much more time/money on to make right ...

GL, the old trailer *did* have a "notched" rear roller in the center, and much like you describe, I would always put that roller right at the water's surface when retrieving, using it to guide the boat on, and she would almost always come out centered. With the new trailer, I pretty much just need to have the rear ends of the bunks in the water, and as long as I get the bow between them and the winch strap clipped on, she's coming out straight! ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
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Re: New trailer

Postby Alan » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:07 am

The biggest improvement I made to our trailer was to replace the bow yoke with a roller, which ends up somewhere between the bow hook and the bottom of the hull. It's infinitely easier to position the bow vertically, and that translates into quick, easy retrieval and not looking like a rookie on the launch ramp.

I also installed near-vertical roller guide-ons at the widest point of the beam (big hint: waste of money, vibrate a lot and make black marks on the hull while towing, not to mention looking rookie-ish). I may move them back to the rear end of the trailer, or may just give them the heave-ho.

The center of my boat sits on four rollers, with two bunks off to the sides. The last four times we retrieved, it went like clockwork. However, one of the rollers is splitting from old age, so there's a new set waiting to be installed.

In an ideal world, I'd be able to drop the centerboard for maintenance and repairs with the boat still on the trailer, but there's a crossmember in the way. Not sure what to do about that.
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Re: New trailer

Postby GreenLake » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:34 am

TIM WEBB wrote:I am very fortunate to have a place like B&G Trailers close by, and their knowledge and experience saved me a lot of time and money, versus if I had tried to find a used trailer on craigslist or similar, that I would have had to spend much more time/money on to make right ...


I've had mine apart pretty much as far as it would go twice now. The first time after I got it, and the second time many seasons later. The metal isn't galvanized and even Hammerite will show rust after saltwater use, eventually. I put new bunks on each time, and new rollers the last time. And a friend replaced a hub for me. Bearings came and went at shorter intervals, bearing buddies or no, lights at even short ones, until I switched to LED lights. So far, only on one side, but it's been rock solid.

I don't mind that level of maintenance; where I made a mistake is in having the trailer springs redone. Supposedly at a locally renowned place, but cost more than boat and trailer did together and I think they went a size up (--> too stiff). And they also raised the trailer a few inches so now it's harder to set up the boat from the ground. Luckily I don't trailer many miles, so any increase in vibration is still limited. I simply was getting concerned about the four decades of saltwater corrosion on the originals, didn't know how deep I should let those pits go...

If your bunks go back far enough and the boat is low enough between them, I'm not surprised that you load straight. Reason I described my setup is that if you follow the advise to raise the center bunk you may see a change...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New trailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:43 am

It is my belief that trailering is what transforms a nice new stiff boat to an old soft boat over time. The quickest progression would be to have a trailer with rollers (point load) and springs that are too stiff. The slowest progression would be to have a fully molded cradle and a trailer with nice soft springs and good shock absorbers. Obviously, all trailers are a compromise.

When I bought my boat, though it looked really good, the bottom was quite soft. The previous owner had junked his original trailer and replaced it with a much more substantial trailer that was made for a much heavier boat. It was one of those all roller trailers. He told me that he had the springs worked on to reduce their stiffness, but the damage had been done.

When I put the core in the bottom to stiffen up the boat I wanted to make a cradle for the boat on my trailer. I used two pressure-treated 2 x 12's 12 feet long that are shimmed to fit the bottom of the boat. I do have a roller under the bow, though. These bunks are separated by 2 inches, so run down the center of the boat. I wanted to support the boat from the transom to as far forward as possible with no point load. I have a V-notch cut at the back end to aid lining up the boat on to the bunks.

When I had rollers I was contemplating some kind of guides along the side to help load the boat because it never went on straight. I was always that guy in the water wrestling with my boat while everyone else looked on. With the bunks it loads like it's on rails. It's easy to line up and I have not once had to readjust it.

This is a very long-winded way of saying I still believe that supporting the centerline of the boat is important. However maybe raising the center bunk should be changed to two center bunks with a 2 inch space, as I know that works well. I have a support for my centerboard between the two bunks.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: New trailer

Postby GreenLake » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:21 pm

Bunks + center rollers are a compromise that puts the point loads at rather stiff areas of the boat, esp. areas forward of the CB. In order to get softening, you need to put loads on the matrix that cause it to flex enough so that the differential elasticity of resin and glass comes into play. The keel sections would seem an unlikely place for that. Point loads in the flat sections (where the seats are) are a different matter. I lengthened and widened the bunks each time and added more padding, in an attempt to reduce negative effects.

If I were to engage in frequent long (or even medium) distance trailering I would seriously look a the split center bunk, or even side bunks that are so wide as to nearly touch in the middle...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New trailer

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:59 pm

You guys mentioned "soft springs" - this trailer has torsion axles. The way the guys at B&G explained it to me, it's akin to having McPherson struts on your car instead of a shock/leaf spring combo. TRW certainly seems to bounce around a lot less when going over bumps in the road ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: RIVERSIDE, CA

Re: New trailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:18 pm

Tim,

I had not thought of torsion axles for a boat trailer. For a while, when I was preparing to rebuild my trailer, I looked at a lot of trailers at the launching area. I'm not aware of seeing torsion axles. If they keep the salt water out of the axle I can see that as a definite advantage. My trailer springs definitely make a lot of noise while squeaking along. The less bouncing that you're getting is definitely a good thing!
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: New trailer

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:26 pm

Yes KC, the torsion axles are sealed, and according to the literature I got w/ the trailer, maintenance-free. It's a Magic-Tilt, so I guess pretty reputable ... ?
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: RIVERSIDE, CA

Re: New trailer

Postby Mike Gillum » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:33 pm

Over the past three decades I have trailered on average 10-20k miles a year so do the math.
When we're not trailering the boats sit on their respective trailers in the side yard or garage the rest of the time.
A 6"+/- wide centerline support running the majority of the centerline of the hull padded with indoor/outdoor carpeting is an ABSOLUTE must with a pair of 6"+/- wide side supports padded with indoor/outdoor carpeting set an 1/8" below the centerline support to balance the boat as you drive the road or get into of out of your boat.
The centerline support needs to run from forward of the bow to as far as aft as you can get to the transom! The side supports should be aligned under the inboard edge of the side tanks where they meet the hull to provide the greatest strength!
Rollers and bunks will point-load the hull and over time damage or destroy your hull because of the weight involved! Old trailers can be modernized but damaged or destroyed hulls cannot!
The correct Leaf Springs for the weight of your boat, trailer and the rest of the gear you expect to carry might be "old-school" but they're also fool-proof and if the road is that bad then you need to slow down to not only save your boat but your vehicle, fillings and kidneys!
Sorry for the rant!
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