Refinishing topsides and hull

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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby tc53 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:49 pm

Thanks, K.C. After exhausting all local distributors (who only carry it in gallon or five gallon sizes), I've written to George Kirby Paints. I did notice, though, on the PPG website (the link I posted above), that it is only listed as coming in these sizes. I wonder if PPG has stopped carrying the quarts. Since its most common application appears to be garage and shop floors, the larger quantities make sense.

At this point, I am giving the cockpit a good scrubbing with a water/TSP solution, and it is cleaning up very nicely, so I may forego repainting it for this season. I have, however, scraped the old, peeling paint off the underside of the cabin top, down to the original fiberglass, and I want to repaint this at least. I assume this would not require the durability needed on the cockpit deck. Does anybody have any paint recommendations for this?
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:22 am

I'm pretty sure that Kirby packaged the quarts themselves from bulk. I don't know if they still do this.

I would think that a good primer and a good single pack enamel would be fine for the ceiling. Prep is 97% of the equation. You need to figure out why the previous coating peeled and remedy that. Aside from cleaning the surface it needs some "tooth" for adhesion. Follow the manufacturer's guidelines for the primer and the topcoat as far as sanding and prep.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby tc53 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:09 pm

Thanks, KC. With my coaming refinishing project well under way now, I am also turning my attention to the underside of the cabin top. Except for a few spots where the existing paint simply would not scrape off, I have it all stripped down to the bare fiberglass. I really know very little about paints. Would this be a suitable enamel, do you think?

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/products/finishes/flat-white.aspx

Thanks!
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:22 pm

I have no experience with that paint but it should work fine, I would think. Follow the product data instructions and you should be fine. Also, because it is a solvent-based paint do pay attention to adequate ventilation.
Last edited by K.C. Walker on Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:11 am

The inside of the hull (except where water can pool) and where not exposed to direct sunlight is the most undemanding area to paint. Especially the underside of the deck. So I wouldn't worry too much about the perfect product. Agree with K.C. that this looks fine, and it appears cheaper than some alternatives that I have used.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby tc53 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:01 pm

Thanks, KC and Greenlake. Any recommendations for a comparable water-based enamel?
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:35 pm

I mean, you can probably get away using house paint for inside of the cuddy roof. Unlike the hull, or bilges you don't have water immersion or standing water, and unlike the seats, there's no abrasion from sitting on it.

Generally though, while I like water-based stuff wherever possible, I think it's not there yet, in terms of delivering comparable quality and ease of (correct) application. And for the underside of the deck, I think it's not worth the trouble.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:56 pm

I have not used house paint for boats but I was curious enough to Google. Here are two links I found interesting. I think Greenlake might be onto something... http://www.simplicityboats.com/latexcarnel.html http://forum.woodenboat.com/archive/ind ... -3737.html
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:42 pm

The tradeoff seems to be longevity (and some degree of appearance). They do mention rather frequent repainting in those articles, not something that I'd want to do inside the cuddy every year.

Also an option for not-so-critical locations is automotive spray paint. Should weather quite well, as long as you use the correct primer.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:36 am

Not that I am advocating for house paint, I'm just speculating that for the intended purpose (cuddy ceiling) it might work fine. Those articles indicate using it in much harsher locations and on wood, which is far more difficult to keep paint on, and still getting reasonable results. If one were to use Interlux Brightside in those situations you might see a similar repaint schedule for wood. One commenter on the wooden boat forum said that the taped fiberglass epoxy joints on his plywood boat looked much better than the wood with age.

I've been using Behr paint around the house and cabin for the last 15 years and find that I like it. The Premium Plus and now the Marquis paints apply very well with good coverage (using brush, roller, or airless sprayer) and have a limited lifetime warranty if applied correctly. As always, prep is 95% of the job. Again, not that I'm advocating, but if I were to paint the ceiling of my front porch with a good quality 100% acrylic latex paint, I would expect that it would look fine for 15+ years.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:13 pm

The trick would be to get something glossy, so that nothing rubs off in streaks when the cuddy ceiling is inevitably touched. With that qualification I could see that work.

I did once or twice paint something that should have had an oil paint with latex and ran into two issues. One is that latex can end up too thick (one time what I painted had small parts and a thinner coat would have been better), and one of the other cases had the latex suffer badly from being touched (got grimy fast), but presumably because it wasn't glossy.

Let's see what the OP will do.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby tc53 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:49 pm

Thanks, guys. I am tempted by a semi-gloss latex house paint (assuming I can find this), especially if the cost savings is significant. On the inside of the cabin top, I think I just need something that adheres well and can be cleaned off easily. Not exactly a high traffic area. I'm also looking at just using three coats of Interlux Brightside (semi-gloss) one-part polyurethane, preceded by Interlux Pre-Kote as a primer.

Since most of my surface has been scraped/sanded down to the bare fiberglass, is a primer going to be needed regardless of what paint I choose (even latex house paint)? If so, and if the house primer and paint are not that much cheaper, I'll probably just go the Interlux route.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:11 am

I wonder if a "kitchen" paint (even though it's not exterior) might not work just as well. The usual thing with inside paints is that they lack UV protection and may not handle getting wet as well, both don't apply to the cuddy interior. As for freeze/thaw and moisture cycling, the substrate being fiberglass should be a lot more forgiving than wood siding.

Kitchen paints are very washable. Or use "floor" paint. That might be durable enough for the sides of the cuddy as well (except where water collects). I've used a floor paint on an exterior exposed railing and it lasted a few years.

Final tip for cheapskate boat owners: find a paint store that sells "mis-tints". If you keep your eyes open you can get excellent high quality stuff for $10 a gallon.
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby K.C. Walker » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:15 am

To a point, I think of paint price as not the important part of painting. Labor is by far the most expensive ingredient, whether you hire it out or do-it-yourself. When I do it myself, I figure that I've already spent a lot of my time and I don't compromise by using low-grade paint. I would expect that one quart of Brightside would be enough and the cost is not much. You have already done the prep work which is the major ingredient. From here, what you're looking at is future application and maintenance costs.

For Brightside I would expect your application to be one primer coat and two topcoats (if they are all white) or three coats of Brightside with sanding between each coat (which is quite difficult unless it's a smooth flat surface). For top-quality self priming exterior latex paint, I would expect one coat would be adequate and two coats would be as good as it gets (and no sanding between coats), if you're brushing technique is decent. They're both plenty washable and durable in this application I would think (and sandable in my experience with Behr Marquee yesterday). In the future prep for another coat of paint is much easier for latex, as all it needs is a good washing, whereas Brightside would need sanding and solvent wash. If you are looking for the perfect finish on the hull sides, there is no question that Brightside would be much better. If you were to go with latex I would recommend a lower sheen for the most hiding. Also, touchup on latex is super easy and blends right in.

Geez, it sounds like I'm advocating for latex and I might be tempted to try it myself in this application. But, I don't have any experience with this, so it's all speculation.

I wouldn't worry about it much, though. You do realize the only time that you are going to see the ceiling of the cuddy is when you are laying on your back in the cockpit…
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Re: Refinishing topsides and hull

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:23 pm

K.C. Walker wrote:I wouldn't worry about it much, though. You do realize the only time that you are going to see the ceiling of the cuddy is when you are laying on your back in the cockpit…


That's bringing it to a nice point. I'm always appalled what that cuddy ceiling looks like, but never do anything about it :)

The thing about low-sheen deserves a comment. There are really different factors involved. For a surface that you often view side-on, like the top side of the hull, or the deck, a highly glossy paint will telegraph bumps and unfair spots, and avoiding such paint where the surface isn't very smooth and fair is sensible. For other viewing angles and other types of surfaces that's perhaps less of an issue and other considerations come into play; ease of washing for example. I don't think I've ever used flat paint on anything other than walls or ceilings -- in locations that are truly out of reach.
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