Hull Damage from trailer

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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby GreenLake » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:29 am

Hmm.

"Lateral" = side-to-side.

Which direction where you thinking?
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby talbot » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:03 pm

I was thinking in terms of structure to keep the CB trunk from flexing under sideways pressure of the board when the boat is going to windward. I have my board out of the boat right now, and it's long lever arm when fully extended.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby GreenLake » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:14 am

There are two main ways the CB trunk can be strengthened.

One is to keep it upright relative to the boat as the CB exerts a load to angle it (move the top from side to side). The most efficient way to do this is the DS1 solution with the thwarts. They firmly hold the top of the CB and their leverage is excellent (and their strength excessive, because they need to be strong enough to be sat or stood on).

The other is to support the walls of the CB trunk against flexing from when the top of the CB tries to push against the leeward side. For boats where the CB is through-bolted, that is not as much of an issue, but for the DS1, for example, where the CB is only held by the lever on one side, it is the walls that hold the CB in place.

In the through-bolted case, which includes boats like mine that have been modified to accept a bolt into the CB handle pin from the opposite side, (much of) the load on the walls is along the plane of the wall, but without the bolt, the load is purely at right angles to the trunk wall and close to half-way up, that is, where the wall is the most flexible. That said, even with the through bolt I see a bit of flex, because the seat for the CB pin is no longer able to prevent the board from angling just a bit, even if the bolt holds the pin in a fixed location.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby Swashbuckley » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:54 am

Like you mentioned in your second post, Greenlake, the cb trunk can flex in several 'lateral' directions. Maybe an easier way to separate them is the flex of the cb trunk and the flex of the cb wall. As you mentioned the trunk flex is best dealt with by the installation of the thwarts, as the DS1's use. I am planning on installing a full height bulkhead about 20" back from the cuddy bulkhead, instead of just a thwart. This will create a new storage compartment on each side of the cb. The wall flex I am tackling with a full sandwich of the cb trunk with 5/8" plywood. Additional 2" gussets will be added at all joints. I have been accused many times of over building things. I think the angle beam that O'Day added was intended to deal with a certain amount of wall flex. I am sure it would have helped if it had been properly installed. Just seems like kind of a Band-Aid fix for a strength problem, like maybe they already had a lot of hulls built and were trying to get them out the door.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby GreenLake » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:33 am

That may well have been the case. On my boat I have evidence that that deck molding initially prepared for taking jib sheets to a block outside the coamings and through them from there. They clearly had many more moldings finished in that configuration than they later needed, so they patched up the drilled holes for mounting the block, but you can see the evidence from underneath.

Knowing that, I'm not surprised about any band-aid designs where they are out of sight.

A bit of overbuilding may be OK, but do watch the weight. You really do not want to add more weight to a DS, there's enough there already. Reinforcing the wall above the top of the CB when deployed would, for example, add relatively little, especially if you are planning on 5/8" foam core, which would appear to even make a partial brace strong enough for the entire load and then some :)
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby Swashbuckley » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:21 am

Sorry for no recent updates, snow (yes in TEXAS), thunderstorms and a swarm of bees have really slowed my progress. The new cockpit 'box' has been finished and supports the hull very well. The exterior hull shape is now fairly normal. No dips or hollows where the trailer bunks were located. The splits and cracks at the cb trunk ends have been repaired, as well as several other hull damage points. My fiberglass work has not been pretty but it is strong. Due to time constraints ( the TX200 is approaching fast) I have decided to leave the exterior hull unfaired till after the TX200. It will probably need repairs after the TX200 anyway (oyster reefs). The CB was reinstalled with new cable attachment points (more on that later with pics). A thunderstorm hastened this process and I may have to revisit this in the future. The trailer has been partially rebuilt and 'Tiny Dancer' rides nicely on the new 10" wide bunkboards. Now to complete the refit of the deconstructed interior prior to the event. I will post pics as soon as time permits. Seems like every time I start work I get chased away by the weather or bees. A recent visit by John A. brought many questions and concerns. I think he is beginning to wonder if I will be able to restore her to sailing form. :wink: So far in this process I have benefitted from the work done and shared by so many on this forum that I cannot express thanks enough. I hope to float test this weekend! My wife keeps reminding me I can make it prettier after the 200.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby jeadstx » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:51 pm

I have confidence that you will make the boat sailable for the Tx200. I'm looking forward to see the boat sail. Looks like there will be 3 Day Sailer IIs (including yours) on the Tx200 this year.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby talbot » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:07 pm

We want pictures. We want pictures. We want pictures.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:09 am

What Talbot wrote!
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby jeadstx » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:05 pm

Talbot and Greenlake are right. We need pictures.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby Swashbuckley » Mon May 04, 2015 10:56 am

Here she is back on the water. SHE FLOATS! She was fast and nimble. Did not have enough hands to take pics on the water or use the GPS, so estimated hull speed in ~15 mph winds with permanent first reef in main. Almost needed second reef. New heavy duty stays and spreaders from D&R. All new lines. New (old, reworked with stuff from Duckworks) sails. MinKota auxiliary power. Rebuilt trailer, still needs lots of work. Cockpit still a work in progress. Definitely need topping lift, boom vang, rework mainsheet blocks... I have a long refit list. CB trunk still leaks, I believe due to board control holes. New board control cable set up worked well. Did I say she was fast. We were light overall and very stern heavy and she still accelerated like a rocket. Helm was light and balanced. She heels smoothly, like my Pearson, not like my former Catalina 22. We spent about an hour zipping back and forth across the lake before we called it a day and headed in. After learning to sail on my 26' Pearson my crew was a little edgy in this racehorse. But he is quit game, with a lot of natural sailing talent. Successful first trial, everyone returned safe and unharmed. She is definitely a fun boat, but I came away with a certain apprehension about her as an expedition boat. Need more time with her. From where I found her to yesterday has been quite a journey, she is sailing again!
2048
2049
2050
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby klb67 » Mon May 04, 2015 11:23 am

I'm wondering if the pics are visible to anyone? I'm logged into the main site and the forum - they come up as "you are not authorized to view this image" I have seen this more often recently on other posts, yet some pics are fine?
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby Swashbuckley » Mon May 04, 2015 11:27 am

Cockpit progress photos.
From the stern, the new lower cockpit sole gives lots more legroom and supports the hull very well. The new CB trunk and oak cuddy post with no controls.
2051
Stern view, I still need to add the bulkhead and bench seat across the cockpit with a seatback. You can see from this pic that even at the stern the new sole is 3 1/2" lower than the original sole floor. Forward it is almost 8". That proved very comfortable on the trial sail.
2052
The new CB trunk open on one side for the installation of the board control cables. Not yet installed is an emergency cb board deployment system that I found elsewhere on this forum. A 1/2" by 4" long bolt was installed in the back top of the trunk. If the board is stuck, simply unscew the bolt and us a pushrod to deploy the cb. And yes it did work quite nicely.
2053
The downhaul cable is right next to the cuddy post and is hard to see. The uphaul cable and pulley are to the stern or photo right. The pulley in the cb trunk is a mast halyard pulley from a Catalina 22. These are the inner trunk penetrations that I think still leak, sigh.
2056
The uphaul cable will be connected to another pulley and cleat at the top of the cuddy post at about the angle I am holding the cable in the photo. This worked pretty well in the trial sail.
2055
Once the oak post was secured the small temporary support board on the inside of the cuddy was removed. All of the cb board control cable cleats and pulleys were mounted to the post.
2054

Other than cleats and controls this is pretty much how she looked for yesterdays trial sail. More pics to follow in a few days. All of this due to poor trailer design and being stored outside with the cockpit drain plug installed. But hey, their loss my gain.
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby Swashbuckley » Mon May 04, 2015 11:29 am

Anybody know what I need to do to fix the photo problem that KLB67 mentioned?
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Re: Hull Damage from trailer

Postby talbot » Mon May 04, 2015 12:05 pm

Interesting set of modifications.
1. Is it still self-bailing?
2. What supports the floor boards above the hull?
3. How are you finishing/sealing all that plywood?
4. What are your particular concerns about the DS as an expedition boat? (Besides it being smaller than your previous boats?)

Re: GPS--I've found that a Garmin marine mount lets me use my unit hands-free. I put mine on top of the CB trunk near the bulkhead.
Re: Speed--Using the GPS and wind meter, I've noted that my boat travels at up to about 1/2 the velocity of the wind. So if you were in 15 mph (13 kt) winds, I would guess you were sailing at ~6.5 kt, about 1 kt above the boat's displacement hull speed. You may have been sailing faster on your longer boats, but, yeah, it feels different so close to the water.
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