CB cable connection HELP!

[Swashbuckley]

OK, how do you remove these bung type cable connections? I removed the CB today and instead of finding the tang type cable connections I find these bung types. One for uphaul and one for downhaul. I managed to loosen them but that was as far as I could get. They have been painted over many times. Shouldn't there be a slot or something to detach the cable from the bung? I searched the archives and could not find any description or photo that illuminated the situation. Help!

[GreenLake]

If the bung goes through, as it appears.

The only way I could imagine it being put together is that it has a slot, you stick the cable into the hole in the board and out the opening. Fix it in the slot of the bung, then pull cable tight and push bung in. That can't work if the bung is a full cylinder, perhaps it has a flat spot in the middle to allow the cable to fit while inserting the bung... (or there's a wider opening inside the board where the cable can squeeze in while the bung is being inserted).

Have you tried "pushing" on the cable to see whether you can better move the bung?

Could be that the geometry is such that the bung only can move one way.

If the bung doesn't go through, but is just an outer plug on each side, it would be much easier to assemble this, with a middle piece holding the cable and shaped so that it can be inserted easily (or a two-part bung with an L shape. By pounding on it from one side, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell.

Best I can do, until the real experts come along

[Swashbuckley]

Thanks, Greenlake. The bungs do go all the way through the board. I can push one out about a quarter of an inch. I chipped and scratched at it but cannot seem to find the slot that you and I would expect to be there. I will try and scrape off more paint today. I could not find any photos or sketches that show this two bung set-up.

[jeadstx]

That is totally different than what I've seen for the the DS2. I know your boat is an early DS2, but I can't imagine that much difference. Tim Webb recently changed his cables, maybe he can comment. It would be good for someone with a DS2 that has the same early DS2 downhaul as you to respond. I don't think both cables are suppose to come off the same area.

Attached are a couple pictures someone else posted at one time showing the configuration my 1976 DS2 has. The cables should have been attached similar I would think, but now not sure.

The main difference I would think is that your CB downhaul runs thru the center top of the CB trunk instead of the forward end.

John

[jeadstx]

Out of curiosity, is your centerboard bolt hole round or does it appear to be square. If square it could be a replacement board from a DS1 which could explain not having the correct attachment points for a DS2.

John

[Swashbuckley]

Well, mystery solved. Instead of a slotted bung, the PO had filled the termination hole with JBweld. In the first pic you can see where I drilled, chiseled, and beat out the JBweld from the termination hole. In the second pic you can see the custom cable termination of a washer, swedge connector and cable loop. I had to cut the whole thing off to get the cable out of the CB. You can see in the first pic that the same treatment has been applied to the other cable termination. I will chisel it out tomorrow. I guessed what the problem was when I scraped off all the paint and found grey pucky. I can and will reinstall how I want, probably tangs like everyone else and just fill in the holes. John, in the third pic you can see the pivot hole. It is round but has the square index hole to the side. The square hole was/is filled with JBweld also.

[Swashbuckley]

I can see why the downhaul did not work very well. Based on your sketch and the location of my downhaul through hole, the downhaul did not have a very good angle for the last 10-15 degrees of CB extension. I think this situation makes it an easy decision to redesign up/down haul system. Hmmmmm...

[jeadstx]

If you have a filled square hole, that was a DS1 CB. DS2 bolt hole and square are not suppose to be in the same place.

John

[Swashbuckley]

Oh, that would explain at least part of the problem. I wonder if it is a factory use of an old part or a PO replacement? Either way I will not be installing it the way it came apart.

[TIM WEBB]

Swash, sure looks like a DS1 CB repurposed for a DS2. John, did the location of the pivot hole change that much from 1 to 2?

I only replaced the uphaul cable on TRW, and it has the tang attachment as in the diagrams John posted. TRW's CB system matches the diagrams with the exception of not having the CB wedges.

The downhaul is also as shown in the lower diagram, and is all line (no SS cable involved). The 1" hole is filled with what seems to be epoxy, but not sure. I'm torn between "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "fix it before it breaks/PM". The DH line appears to be in good condition, so I'm just keeping an eye on it. I'm pretty confident I could replace it with the boat careened, w/o CB removal, as I did the UH cable, or possibly even on the trailer. A broken DH is not a trip-ender like a broken UH is, or should I say, was, on a trip back in September, when the UH broke as I was pulling the CB up off it's resting place on the center trailer bunk. Didn't even bother to try to splash, as where I was launching and going involved many shallow areas, and being able to raise the CB would have been crucial. Being able to keep the CB down all the way while sailing? Not so much ...

Your photos DO give some very interesting insight however on the early CB control arrangement on the DS2, with the DH cable exiting on the center top of the CB trunk. You are probably correct about the angles, and that split in the board between the cable exit holes was probably not helping.

As far as a re-design goes, I wonder: could you convert from "original" DS2 system to "later" DS2 system? The UH tang and cable are readily available from D&R, and you could create the recess/hole for DH line easily enough in the CB you have. Then it would just be a matter of hole-sawing a new DH opening in the foreward end of the trunk, and installing the various shiny bits to create the single-line control of later DS2's, or even keeping it a 2-line system ... ?

[jeadstx]

I have seen his boat and the uphaul is set up the same way that the later DS2s are except it is not a continuos line. The lines are separated like Tim did on his boat.

As far as the DS2 CB bolt location and the DS1 square hole for the lever alignment. D&R sells the DS1 CB with the lever hole in it, the DS2 board that D&R sells is not drilled indicating that it's location may vary for fitting. Whoever fitted the DS1 board to that boat did not have a clue as to how the lines were suppose to work. With the downhaul line attached at the top front there is no leverage to lower the board.

I've been giving some thought to Swashbuckly's control line system. I think the downhaul line can still exit on the trunk were it currently does, but the line has to be attached to the lower front corner as in the diagram to provide the leverage to get the board down. The uphaul should be attached on top of the board with the tang and exit thru the front of the CB trunk as it currently does. The biggest reason I could see to moving the downhaul line to the front top of the CB trunk (like later DS2s) would be reduce the chance of the downhaul line fowling with the uphaul line. Swashbuckly's boat still has the original plastic grommet in the hole for the uphaul line and in good shape I noted when I was there.

John

[Swashbuckley]

Thanks guys you have been very helpful. To recap, we have determined that the PO has repurposed a DSI board, totally mucked up the up/down attachments and the CB trunk port locations are a different early DSII version. The board pivot point seems to be OK as the board looks good in the retracted position. In the attached photo you can see the downhaul cable port on the top rear of the CB trunk just behind the jib cleats. The uphaul cable port is on the front of the CB trunk as shown in John's sketch. You can see the cable and pulley system inside the cubby in the photo. The second older photo shows the downhaul cable pulley system.


I think when I replace the board I am going to install the downhaul cable similar to how it is shown in John's sketch, except with SS tang on the front curve of the board to get a better angle. I will probably leave the port and pulley system as shown in the photo. The uphaul is a different situation. I am not happy with the uphaul port inside the cubby. I have read lots of comments on the forum about leaks. Since I am planning on using the boat on the TX200, I want the cubby to stay dry for all my gear. If I move the port location to the top of the trunk right next to the bulkhead outside the cubby, the cubby will stay dry. I can attach the cable to the CB with a tang, on the backside of the board, low just above the hull line. The cable angle will be almost vertical through the swing arc. I have a mast exit pulley that will mount nicely on the top of the CB trunk and allow me to use a pulley system similar to the downhaul system. I might even be able to tie the two systems together with a single line. Thoughts? Maybe also move the jib cleats further aft and reverse the downhaul trunk exit pulley and pulley system. This would keep the up/down cables clear of the main and jib cleats. Thoughts?

[TIM WEBB]

TRW still has a single control line system - I just threw out the 2 line idea since the early -2s had 2 lines. I have contemplated changing TRW to 2 lines, but have not yet convinced myself that it would be any better ...

Uphaul:

Seems like the UH cable locations and routing did not change much from earlier to later -2s, with the exception of the 1 vs 2 control lines. The tang is actually screwed to the trailing edge near the top of the CB, not on the top. The second diagram above is misleading, because it shows the board up, so the trailing edge is on top. If the tang was screwed to the top of the board, the force on it would be "peel" instead of "shear", and the screws would rip right out! The first diagram clearly shows the correct arrangement. The "lower" cable in the pictures emanates from roughly the same area, and would serve as the uphaul.

Downhaul:

Methinks that they probably moved the trunk exit location forward in order to reduce fouling, but also to be able to use line only, with no metal cable/tang, for the DH. They had to move the CB attachment point to the leading edge in order to achieve the leverage needed with the DH pointing straight up. This is where the second diagram is correct. My point was that, with the DH cable (upper one in the pictures) at it's location on the board at present, and the DH trunk exit point so far aft on the trunk, there would be enough leverage even with the attachment on the rear "corner" of the board to lower it.

[Swashbuckley]

Too funny, the second cable was simply inserted into the JBweld plug. No ball, knot or loop on the end of the cable to assist in the holding power of the epoxy. When I cracked the plug with a chisel the cable pulled right out of the plug. One extreme to the other. The CB is now clear of the boat. Yea! Thanks for the help guys. I will update when I start going back in with the board. Now I will start fairing and repairing it. Unless I decide to build a new better foil shaped board.

[GreenLake]

As I've stated before, it's my opinion that the work in fairing and painting is by far the bigger part of the job; when I built my rudder and rudder head (a more complex item than a single piece centerboard) creating the actual pieces took at most half the time of the total project. For a CB I estimate the ratio is much more lopsided, as creating and shaping a blank for the foil part of the rudder was about the quickest part of the task I had. For the rudder, the benefit of the better foil shape were noticeable. For me those would be weighty reasons to consider a full replacement.