Rudder head reinforcement

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Rudder head reinforcement

Postby talbot » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:36 pm

Talk on the forum about the Texas 200 reminded me to post my response to the broken rudder head reported a couple of years ago during the event. The attached photo shows a standard rudder head with two oak straps bolted and epoxed to the wings that hold the rudder. The two upper bolts go all the way through the solid glass above the wings; the lower bolt is the rudder pivot. I heat-bent the oak to conform to the curve of the rudder head before attaching. The wood is finished with West System epoxy, varnished on top to reduce UV deterioration.
rudderheadSm.jpg
Reinforced rudder head DS II
rudderheadSm.jpg (201.82 KiB) Viewed 13700 times
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby Alan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:15 pm

Wow! Nice boat, Talbot. I know the restoration was a big pain, but you've got the results to show for it.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:07 am

Very nice!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby jeadstx » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:24 pm

Good looking cockpit Talbot, well organized. You do good work.

Here are pictures of the rudder head damage that happened on the 2011 Texas 200. The damage was caused when the blade was stuck in spoil mud while trying to push off from shore. With the original rudder head, the blade does not rise high enough for the shallows of the Texas coast when beaching. My solution in 2012 was to make a new rudder head that would allow the blade to rise most of the way out of the water by means of an up haul.

2045
To allow us to continue sailing the event, a hole was drilled below the crack to attach the tiller. The tiller sat at a 30 degree angle for the next 4 days of sailing and the rudder was removed for beaching.
2046

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:51 pm

Interesting, why do you think it cracked above the top gudgeon?

Normally, I would expect damage like that, perhaps, if the tiller got stuck on something in the cockpit while the rudder was wrenched about.

If it was a simple side load on the rudder, you would expect a crack in the area where Talbot added the reinforcements.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby jeadstx » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:02 pm

With the force of the blade in the mud, the rudder head was trying to lay back flat across the transom which would probably cause the failure that you suggest. The tiller was attached and as I recall it jammed prior to the head being able to lay flat on the transom, which is the cause of the damage as you would expect. I kind of remember watching it in slow motion (or what now seems like slow motion, actually it was quick) and starting to call out to the 3 or 4 people I was helping push the boat off the shore with, to stop pushing because the rudder was caught and starting to crack. I'm glad it broke where it did if it had to happen as it left part of it usable. Although my boat was made in 1976, the P.O. had replaced both the rudder and the mast with parts from a 1958 DS I.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby talbot » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:12 pm

Good to have an explanation of the mechanics of the accident. Important to realize that just raising the rudder doesn't mean you're in the clear.

Thanks for the compliments on the cockpit layout. My only question is, if it's so nicely laid out, why do I sail all the time in bondage with my feet bound up in my color-coded lines? Did I mistakenly buy Auto-Knot instead of Sta-Set? Overhand, sheet bend, figure eight, sheepshank--my lines know how to tie them all with no help from me. In half-a dozen tacks, my boat could macrame a doily.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions. There was a discussion on another thread about adding sheet bags to the CB trunk. I have a bulkhead halyard bag (hiding under the solar panel in the photo). That's works OK, but I'm concerned that a low-mounted bag would end up catching my feet as often as the sheets.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:57 pm

My wife would have the answer for you, as she does for me… Your boat has too many strings attached.

Recently, while out to dinner, I was talking with my friend Gordon about setting up a sailing canoe. Gordon grew up racing in Newport Rhode Island and has raced from New England to Bermuda. He said one of his all-time favorite boats was a sailing canoe. He set it up with no rudder, no leeboard, and no boom. He said that he only had a 4 inch deep skeg (though rather long) centered on the canoe and only one sheet. To steer the boat, move forward or aft… and only one control line… sheet in or sheet out.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby talbot » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:13 pm

Well, that's how you steer a sailboard, although the context here is a craft in which an aging arthritic couple can float around without two much movement at all, and with enough room for ample picnic supplies and a dog.

Another thing I realize now is that my tangles are a result of rigging for single-handing: If you set up so that all your control lines run into the cockpit, you end up with a cockpit full of control lines. If you assume someone else will take care of sail-raising, headsail trimming, CB raising, drinks-from-the-cooler-fetching, etc., you can simplify the length and placement of your ropework.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:20 pm

Talbot, nicely put!

I know the problem, I thought it was static cling of the line that made it stick to my feet.

I've seen no need to bring halyards (other than spinnaker) into the cockpit, even for single handing. Even so, there's still enough stuff dangling from the cuddy opening. Still, it's mostly the main and jibsheets that I wrap myself in. For the jib sheets, I tie them together. With non-captive cleats on the CB that means I can grab hold of any part of the jib sheet if I drop it and I can't end up on the high side with the leeward sheet out of reach.

I got used to that, so that I now keep it that way even with crew.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:47 pm

Though I may opt to set up the sailing canoe simple, I do like all the strings on my Daysailer. :-)

One thing I've found that helped quite a bit with the sheets not getting tangled is going to single braid sheet line (New England Ropes Buzz Line). I've got a LOT of sheet line on my boat, including 70+ feet of UPS sheet.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby Alan » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:53 pm

Jumping off from K.C.'s point about single-braid line, I've got two identical (except for color) jib halyards from D&R, which I think are Sta-Set double-braid. One is for the jib, the other for the UPS.

I was tinkering yesterday and the jib halyard kept winding around things and balling up into near-knots when I pulled it through the halyard block. I switched it for the UPS halyard, which worked just fine. It looks and feels like the jib halyard has taken a permanent twist for some unknown reason, while the UPS halyard hasn't. Maybe it's the type of line?
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby talbot » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:50 pm

That kind of kinking is usually caused by the sheath slipping on the core, such that the sheath is effectively shorter than the core.

If that's the case, you can sometimes identify the end of the line where sheath is tight or bunched, and pull the line over a soft-friction surface (like a log) to unbunch it. That is more worth attempting on a $250 climbing rope than on a small-diameter halyard. In fact, I encourage you to try out different halyards and then report on them so that I don't have to go out and spend my own money to experiment.

I would be interested in ways of reducing weight aloft with some of these new super-strong fibres, but I'm overwhelmed with the choices.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:26 pm

For halyards I went with single braid Amsteel. I simply replaced the wire halyard and reused the original three strand halyard tails. It's very easy to splice, it's super light and in this application has basically no stretch. The only problem I've had so far is if I happened to let go of the halyard while connecting to a sail it flies up the mast so fast there is no way I can catch it.
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Re: Rudder head reinforcement

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 01, 2015 2:45 am

[quote=talbot]I would be interested in ways of reducing weight aloft with some of these new super-strong fibres, but I'm overwhelmed with the choices.[/quote]

K.C. Walker wrote:For halyards I went with single braid Amsteel. I simply replaced the wire halyard and reused the original three strand halyard tails. It's very easy to splice, it's super light and in this application has basically no stretch. The only problem I've had so far is if I happened to let go of the halyard while connecting to a sail it flies up the mast so fast there is no way I can catch it.


What K.C. says; except I never had the wire halyards. I did splice basic double braid as tails on lengths of Amsteel. I describe that in this post in my thread in the rigging section of the forum.

The splicing instructions that I found on http://L36.com were really straightforward, and easy enough to follow; with the right instructions, even a beginner can get splices to work perfectly in Amsteel. It's that easy to work with.

The downside of splicing a tail onto the Amsteel is that, when the sail is down, one half of the halyard is much lighter than the other: if you ever let go of it, it will disappear up on the mast, as K.C. describes. Even more so, if you replace the eye+shackle with a soft shackle, or an integrated soft-shackle. I've trained myself to secure the free end of the halyard immediately when taking it off the head of the sail. That has prevented any real problems for now.
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