Leaky Boat

[DigitalMechanic]

So, my boat has always taken on some water (into the hull) while sailing since I got it. I have read through the forum, and checked the usual spots. Tim warned me that the center board up haul might be a suspect location. I read about fixes, but it does not appear that my boat allows the up haul to pass through the hull (no open area to allow water in hull). I pulled the grommets out and the fiberglass is very thick there, and one side is outside of the boat in the centerboard truck and the other side comes out in the cuddy. There is literally no inner hull access for water to get to. So that is not the location that leaks (if it did, it would leak into the cuddy not the hull).

With that said, the next location is the bailer. I think... That is the spot. I completely removed the bailer top and bottom of the hull. It is another location that appears to be solid fiberglass through the hull (I think I just figured out water drains to the aft plug via the space under the seats to the sides of the transom wall). But... It looked like there was a small disoriented (sideways) hole that was in the fiberglass that the bailer goes through. Either it was intentional at some point for something, and it is now just plain out disoriented from the 40 years of action the boat has had, or it rotted out. None the less, I believe that my leak is predominantly through the threads on the bailer top and bottom (that screw together), as it was not sealed with and adhesive or plumbers tape. Also, After examining the bailer, mine is missing the usual pins that hold the ball that would have been there, and of course the ball itself. If you have the bailer removed you can see those holes would leak through and touch the hull. My hull's bailer section (again after 40 years) is not a symmetrical hole at this day and age. Thus I am concerned that the bailer grommet will not have an effective seal. So, I have put it back with plumber's tape (screwed together with the pink stuff). and then caulked the surface area of the bailer, along with slamming some 3M 5200 in the holes that the pins would have resided in. I am not sure that plumber's tape is effective in salt water, or the caulk. But even if this is only a temporary fix it should identify the bailer as problematic if the hull stays dry next time out.

I am still boggled by the (sideways) hole in the through hole in the fiberglass where the bailer goes. Is that rot, or was that intentional by O'Day for some reason? Again that area is hard to decipher such things in the condition it is in. Imagine taking a hole saw and putting it through a 2x4, and then trying to drill a hole through the side of the hole you just created. Weird...

[GreenLake]

I find it hard to picture and get quite "disoriented" reading about the sideways hole.

If the bailer isn't functional anyway, perhaps removing it and glassing over the opening?

I'm always leery of any "repairs" that involve "tape", "caulk" and 3M 5200...

[DigitalMechanic]

Yep. It is pretty strange. I wish I would have taken a picture, but I already put it back together. I am not sure that is a spot you would "repair" with fiberglass. The fiberglass is extremely thick, and is strong on the top and bottom, and would normally be hidden/protected by a properly sealed bailer. The little hole in the drilled out spot for the bailer is the mystery. If the bailer is appropriately sealed, I would think it should keep water from getting back to that spot in the future. Imagine the bailer going through the hull. The hull is supposed to be (presumably) solid fiberglass from one side to the other. But there is a little hole in part of the wall of the hole. If the bailer threads are sealed, and the top and bottom of the bailer on each side of the hole are sealed, then water should not be able to get in there. The only way I could think of to do that, is caulk the bottom of the bailer (the exit hole is not a tight perfect circle anymore), and then seal the bailer threads with plumber's tape. Same thing you would do for your washing machine hoses or a PVC plumbing joint on the threads.

I still may not be painting a good enough picture, but hope that helps visualize a little more.

[GreenLake]

If the bailer is functional, I can see not removing it and just making sure there are no leaks around it. Some of your remarks made it seem that the bailer isn't functional any more (or somewhat defective). In which case I'd recommend either replacing it with a functional one (if you find you need it), or removing it, in which case you'd want to glass over the opening.

Stuff that's not functional, but simply buried in place and forgotten is always a potential trouble spot later.

Further reason for my remarks on caulk: when I repainted my hull, I came across a funny dime-sized spot in the middle of the waterline stripe. I pushed at it a bit, and imagine my surprise, when my finger went through what should have been 1/4" of solid laminate.

I don't know whether someone had taken a pot shot at the boat, or how it came to have a bullet hole in that location, but clearly the PO had simply caulked the hole and painted over it. Imagine if that had failed some distance from the nearest shore. I happen to have a DS1, where (except for the flotation tanks) the entire hull surface is accessible from the inside. But imagine that scenario for a double hull.

[DigitalMechanic]

Yes the bailer is functional. It is just no longer self bailing because the ball is gone. But it is still a very functional manual bailer. I believe it was not properly sealed at the threads (plus 2 holes where pins would have been inserted to hold the bailer ball). The top and bottom of the bailer screw together through the hull. There are a part of the threads that are exposed to the water the boat would sit on beneath the plug in the sump. Without the ball there, water would presumably be able to press up into those threads and leak through without sealant/tape (or something on the threads) into the sideways "mysterious" hole I was talking about, then into the hull. Or at least I think this is what is happening.

Also, I have not patched any fiberglass with with caulk. I simply sealed the lip of the bottom of the bailer that touches the hull with caulk. There is a rubber O-ring that would technically seal a perfectly round hole on the bottom piece of the bailer. But that hole is not so perfectly round anymore. Thus the need for caulk... This sounds horrible... Now that I am reading it back...

Sorry, I really should have taken some pictures...

[GreenLake]

Let us know if sealing these bits solves your problem.

[DigitalMechanic]

Well, I think if I have a leak at the bailer, that it will be at least temporarily sealed. I guess the real questions I had were...

1. How does caulk hold up in a saltwater marine environment?

2. Does Plumber's tape hold up in saltwater marine environments (not sure what else you would put on PVC threads the bailer is made of)?

3. Has anyone one else with a DSII worked on their bailer and seen the mysterious hole in the bailer hole in the fiberglass?

When I come back from the next sail I will let you know if she is still taking on the same amount of water.

[jeadstx]

D&R Marine has a replacement bailer. There are threads on the forum concerning this repair. Tim Webb did a write up on replacing his as I recall. I've got the replacement, but haven't installed it yet. My bailer hasn't worked since I got my boat. I just use a plug in it and open it for drainage while on the trailer.

My boat rarely gets water in the inner hull while sailing. Sometimes I find water in the inner hull after sailing, but it only happens when I forget to open the bilge drain before I go out. Water gets into my bilge through the original inspection ports in the cockpit while the boat is on the trailer during heavy rain storms. The seals are bad on the ports. I put grease in the threads of the port to help seal the ports, helps somewhat.

A way that you can check your bilge for leaks is to fill the bilge with water with the drain plugs in place and see if any water drips out anywhere. If there is a place to come in, there will be somewhere to leak out. If the cockpit ports are the cause of the leak fill the cockpit/cuddy with water and drain plugs installed. Check the bilge after a few hours.

John

[GreenLake]

To your questions: I wouldn't expect any issues with Teflon tape or with caulk that are specific to salt water. "Caulk" covers such a wide range of products that it's possible some will be less durable than others. One difference is resistance to UV, which is an issue in any outdoor application. If the caulk is mostly in a place where there's no UV exposure, then that's one issue less. If the caulk is placed where water pressure presses it into whatever cracks it's supposed to seal, it will probably perform better over time than if water pressure can act to "lift" it off the surface or to compress it to allow water passage. That said, all caulk ages...

[DigitalMechanic]

@Jeadsxt... The inspection ports will leak, but a very minimal amount of water. I will drain the boat after I wash it or rains. There a only just a tiny bit of water that comes out (say a glass of water). However, I have made sure the hull is dry before sailing. After a few hours on the water, there is some water to drain (at least a few gallons). I am not leaking at the centerboard, as I have done the replacement work there (presumably without need at this point).

When I talked to Rudy about the bailer, he said he would not worry about replacing the boat if it rests on a trailer. The self bailer is not needed. I can manually pull the plug while underway and the water will get sucked out. Then close it back. But this is really something I do not use, as I have rarely dunked a rail. It is hot enough here that any spray that gets into the boat is usually made quick work of by the sun, lol. I am sure you ca relate being in TX

I have gone over the hull with a fine toothed comb, and I cannot find any damage spots either that would leak. My hull is in pretty good shape considering it's age.

@ GL... Thanks for the clarification. The caulk is on the bottom of the hull, around the bailer edges. Not sure what else you would seal a pvc/plastic to fiberglass joint with, so I guess this will just be considered a consumable on the boat, and need to be checked periodically. It looks like the PO tried to use some clear silicone, but that stuff had turned to mush and was not really doing anything anymore. That is why I asked about the caulk.

Thanks guys!

[GreenLake]

One thing that people use to bed hardware on bigger boats is Butyl. It never gets hard and, unlike caulk, doesn't cure. So you don't get the issue of squeezing it out before its cured. One thing that people do with caulk is sometimes to not tighten the fixture fully right away for 24h. That way it cures with some thickness and final tightening will compress the caulk for a better seal.

Silicone in all forms is something to stay away from - it will interfere with being able to paint the boat, if ever needed. The alternative, other than Butyl, would be Poly-Sulfide (like the Life-Callk sealant from BoatLIFE).

Keep those in mind if you ever need to re-do the seal. I take it that the bailer itself still closes tightly. Anyway, if your leaks stop when sailing you are done, otherwise the "trickle" test may be called for.

[jeadstx]

Tim is really the master when it comes to leaks on a Day Sailer II, he had a bunch of places. As I recall he even had a leak coming through his icebox.

Have you checked your hull/deck joint for any possible gaps that might allow water in while sailing? I know I sealed a few gaps myself.

John

[DigitalMechanic]

Yep, Tim mentioned the Deck/hull joint to me. My boat appears to be in good shape there. Looks like the gelcoat is continuos and smooth all through the joint. Joint across the transom is sealed as well. If there were a crack I would think that the rail would have to spend some amount of time in the water for several gallons to enter the hull through the joint. The boat is rarely healed that far over.

Hopefully the repair I did was effective. It seems like the only logical identifiable place at this moment. I just need to get out and do some sailing to test it.

On a sidenote, I actually got my icebox to seal. Did it back in December of last year. Filled in the holes that the string would have gone through originally to attach the box's lid, and then used hatch seal foam tape stuff on the lip of the box and another layer on the bottom of the lid. Added a latch and some hinges. No leaks from rain or washing since, so I moved my stuff into there (for convenience). It will however get a little condensation from the heat if you do not dry out the inner hull.

[jeadstx]

Just as an odd thought, have you made sure that all your drain plugs seal well. I had one that was leaking that I had to replace.

John

[DigitalMechanic]

Well, actually I have not really. I assume the ones to the cockpit are good, as the cockpit stays dry when I am on the water. So the inner hull drain plug would be the only other one to check. Thing about that is, it does a really good job of holding the water in. I don't ever see it dripping (outside of the boat will be dry by the time I get home), when it is retaining water. I almost never remember to drain the thing at the dock. But I will double check them to be sure.