Rudder attachment.

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Rudder attachment.

Postby oian » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:26 pm

I just purchased a DS2. My Question: The rudder/tiller assembly seems quite heavy. Assuming that someday the boat may (will) capsize, even to the point of going turtle, What is to prevent the rudder assembly from sliding off the gudgeons heading to the bottom? Even though it seems to be quite heavy, will it still float? Is there a catch mechanism that will keep it from dropping off? Possibly a hole drilled through the end of the pintle with a split ring to keep it from sliding completely out of the gudgeon? Or maybe a catch that snaps back against the pintle after it goes through the gudgeon which will need to be pressed to release the rudder assembly? Even if it will float, staying attached would seem to be a better option than re-attaching it in the midst of a capsize recovery.

Thank you for your responses.

John
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby KingsTransom » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:39 pm

The rudder assembly will sink like a stone. There should be a spring clip on the top pin that snaps over the gudgeon. There is a photo in about the middle page of the DS II manual.
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby jeadstx » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:58 am

I have a small hole drilled in the upper pintle to allow me to put a retaining pin through the pintle below the gudgeon. I don't fully trust the spring clip, although I use it as backup.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:50 pm

I have a catch that snaps back (looks like a flat piece of SS with a 15 degree bend in it, mounted so that it catches under a gudgeon.

I have a second catch, this one at 90 degrees, it's mounted on the transom above the top gudgeon. When rotated down, it will prevent the rudder from sliding up. That one requires gravity to stay in position, so mostly helps in a seaway (or to prevent the helmsman from accidentally lifting the rudder off the gudgeons).

If I sailed longer distances/rougher conditions I would go with a system like Johns. My setup is perhaps a trifle less secure, but self-engaging (a big plus).

Finally, I re-built the rudder - it now floats. And (!) it no longer weighs down the transom - the one place (other than aloft) where you really do not want extra weight.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby SUNBIRD » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:43 pm

Although I've been fortunate to never have to prove/disprove this.... I would expect a factory DS Rudder (at least a pre-1983 one) to sink like a stone.
My boat has the little pin that fits through a hole drilled in the upper pintle below the gudgeon. Good, but it does sometimes slip out. I try to always insert the pin from the side opposite where the retaining line is attached to rudder, figuring the weight of that line might help keep the pin in place.

My main concern on my boat is losing the rudder while shipping and un-shipping it (putting it on/taking it off) since I am on a mooring. My present solution (just added this weekend, after 20 years of ownership!) is a leash on the rudder that attaches to the boat. Long enough to allow enough slack to get the rudder on and off, but short enough to not get in the way. I had one on my old Widgeon and found it very reassuring. I screwed an eye-strap to the top of the tiller just forward of the slot where it attaches to the rudder, the leash attaches there and has a loop on the other end that hooks over one of the stern cleats. I made it removeable, but it could be made permanent easy enough (one on my Widgeon was spliced to the eye-strap and had a snap-hook on other end that hooked onto another eye-strap on the inside of the transom. That idea could be adapted to work on a Day Sailer pretty easily, A line set up like that would serve to prevent loss of the rudder In a capsize as well, although rudder would be hanging off boat by that leash if it did come off. Better than losing it if the pin had fallen out!
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby oian » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:30 pm

Thanks for your replies. I just checked the top pintle on the rudder head, and there is a hole for a pin like the one shown on the DR site for parts, so I just need to get something to go through the hole to keep the rudder from falling out. SUNBIRD: You mentioned a retaining line attached to the rudder, could you post a drawing or photo of this line. The photos I've seen for the loose metal angle attached to the transom that falls down keep the pintle coming out seems to be a disaster waiting to happen as it would appear that it will swing out of the way if the boat turtles.

Thanks, John
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Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby SUNBIRD » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:30 am

I remembered to take some pictures last weekend when I was aboard my boat. You will note that I have added an afterdeck to my DS II, similar to what the DS I had.
Oh, and the white line attached to a big white fitting on the deck is my "Swim-Stirrup" a little one-step rope ladder that if needed could be hung over the stern to give me a boost back aboard if I ever fell overboard. I would need to first unship the ensign staff to clear my path and I am assuming that I'd be under sail and thus the boom crutch would not be there (but is I was, like if I were on the mooring, I could shove it out of the way as well.... I hope?) Hopefully the rudder would provide a barrier to help me avoid the outboard prop if under power.
Attachments
Rudder pin2.jpg
Rudder pin2.jpg (178.31 KiB) Viewed 6561 times
Rudder safety line1.jpg
Rudder safety line1.jpg (216.15 KiB) Viewed 6561 times
Rudder safety line2.jpg
Rudder safety line2.jpg (252.14 KiB) Viewed 6561 times
Last edited by SUNBIRD on Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
SUNBIRD
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:05 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Rudder attachment.

Postby SUNBIRD » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:35 pm

The forum limits attached pictures to 3, so here is another pic of the retaining pin, which sits below the top gudgeon. Also, as to my rudder safety line, I might go with a larger diameter line if I was concerned about not losing the rudder in a capsize, and splice it to the eye strap on the top of the tiller, then splice the other end of the line to a snap-hook that would hook onto an eye-strap or eyebolt attached to the inside of the transom (or the afterdeck on a DS I). That was how the line was rigged on my Widgeon.
Attachments
rudder pin1.jpg
rudder pin1.jpg (205.48 KiB) Viewed 6560 times
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
SUNBIRD
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:05 pm
Location: Massachusetts


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