Rowing instructions

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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby 1987DSPrecision » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:28 pm

The precision has a fairly flat deck (slightly sloping). I'll take a look at the top socket.
Like someone else said, I've spent so much time patching up leaks, it's a bit nerve wracking to start cutting holes purposely!
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby talbot » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:22 am

I know. But I found that with my 1973 DS, I never really got things right until I took a deep breath and began opening up the hidden spaces to do proper repairs. I'll admit, I'm a lot more squeamish with our '08 Precision 21 than I with our '73 DS. The newer boat is still fairly shiny, so I won't start cutting on it until something breaks.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby jeadstx » Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:55 am

Here is a picture of a DS I from the 2010 Everglades Challenge race (300 miles). Since motors of any kind are not allowed on participating boats the boat pictured has oarlocks mounted. You can see them if you zoom in on the picture.

DS1 - 2010 Everglades Challenge.JPG
DS1 - 2010 Everglades Challenge.JPG (32.12 KiB) Viewed 7756 times


John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby talbot » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:44 pm

Looks like an O'Day. With the old wooden cockpit coaming, you could attach a side socket to the outside surface. In this case, it looks like they moved the socket outboard with a wooden block. After the DS II, the newer DS I's by Precision, Laser, and Cape Cod did away with the coaming, leaving no obvious place to attach an oarlock.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby jeadstx » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:57 am

From what I read at the time the above Day Sailer I picture was taken, the owner was from England and didn't want to damage the coamings and attached the oarlocks in some temporary fashion. I read he came to the US to sail the Everglades Challenge. Bought the boat in Georgia, got it ready for the race, and sailed it finishing the race. I read that after the race he loaded the DS I on a freighter and had it shipped to England so it would be there when he returned.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby talbot » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:13 pm

Nice to have time and money, isn't it?
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby GreenLake » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:30 pm

talbot wrote:Nice to have time and money, isn't it?

A bit envious, are we? :lol:

On another note: would it make sense to glue some wood blocks to the side of the hull so that oarlocks can be fitted right outside the gunwales, rub rail, or whatever? Leaving aside the question of whether having a projection there is wise, it would widen the base, so you could use longer oars - but also would mean your pull would get longer - perhaps too long without a sliding seat?

What's an optimum distance between oarlocks when you don't have a sliding seat?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby talbot » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:53 pm

Great question, which highlights the fact that most of us pontificating about oars are not in fact rowers. Just sailors trying to get home.

Two companies that design rowing kits for small sailboats are Gig Harbor Boat Works in WA and Chesapeake Light Craft in MD. I believe they mainly cater to the wooden/traditional boat niche. But they probably would be good sources of information on the physics/ergonomics of rowing kits. CLC uses a center-mounted frame (as on a true rowing shell) that would have to attach somehow to the DS CB trunk, and it would probaly need to be removed for sailing. GHBW has a system that installs on the inner edges of a boat's tanks and might take the place of the DS thwarts. A system like that would take some customization to clear the DS centerboard (particularly with CB-mounted jib cams). Also, if you wanted to gain back the lateral support on the CB trunk, there would need to be a way to lock the sliding seat in position onto the CB for sailing.

Anyway, lots to tinker with in the garage over the winter.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:14 am

A sliding seat on a Day Sailer can be seen in three youtube videos titled "Dinghy Sailing in Labrador Parts 1, 2 & 3. The sliding seat is located aft of the centerboard trunk. Oarlocks are mounted on blocks fastened to the deck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm8xjwYqR_U
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby talbot » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:30 pm

Thanks so much for posting this link. I came across a story about this trip in a copy of SAIL (or was it SAILING) magazine that I found in the cabin of a Catalina 38 we were leasing in the San Juan Islands. That was in the days before everything got indexed on the Web. I have never been able to find the article again. (I think I was Googling "Ellesmere Island" instead of "Labrador.") Anyway, a great set of video clips.

As I recall from the article, the couple were National Outdoor Leadership School (or was it Outward Bound) instructors. The boat was an off-the-shelf Day Sailer, the only modifications being the rowing seat and the sail battens.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:49 pm

Nice: for easier reference, I've copied the link to a new thread in the "cruising" section of the site.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:33 pm

I'm not sure if I should post this in this thread or under cruising.

One more thing I noticed in the videos: It is a bit hard to see clearly in the video, so I'm not certain, but it looks to me as though there are port and starboard tracks for the sliding seat. The tracks extend along either side of the centerboard trunk to about where the thwarts are located. The seat carriage itself is tall enough that when it slides forward it is above the height of the centerboard trunk and straddles the trunk. When the seat slides forward it travels until it hits the mainsheet cleat.

The clearest image of this that I noticed is in the "Part 3" video starting at 03:59 minutes.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:07 pm

I think it's fine to discuss the rowing seat related questions here under "Rowing instructions". I put a link to this thread in the other post, so people can find their way here for details as well.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby 1987DSPrecision » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:46 pm

Just saw this shopping on Shaw and Tenney:

The Original Shaw & Tenney Oar Length Formula

To help our customers size their oars correctly, we’ve been using the same formula since 1858: Measure the distance between the center of the port and starboard oar sockets, which hold the oar locks on each gunnel. This is called the “span” between the oarlocks. Divide the span by 2, and then add 2 to this number. The result is called the “inboard loom length” of the oar. Multiply the loom length by 25, and then divide that number by 7. The result is the proper oar length in inches. Round up or down to the closest 6” increment.
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Re: Rowing instructions

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:08 pm

The max beam on the DS is 6'3", with side decks of an original DS1 approx 6" which would make any oar locks placed at the outside coamings about 63.5" apart. Half of that is 31.75". Now, are we adding 2' or 2"? The quote doesn't say, but 2" is about the usual overlap between the two oars. Now we are at 33.75".

The factor 25/7 is 3.571. Multiplied, gives 120 1/2", or 10'.

Since with these dimensions we happen to be at a mid-point were don't need any rounding, the point where we calculate a size that's 1/2 a foot longer or shorter would require moving the oarlocks at least 7/8" out or in to add/subtract 6" from the length of the oars under the formula. After that, it takes an additional 1 11/16" to get to the next step in size.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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