Installing a new mast without measurements

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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby marcusg » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:29 pm

Rudy from D&R was very helpful and hooked me up with new stays, rubber spreader boots, and a windex. Just got the stays on today and they fit right. So excited.

IMG-6165 (Small).JPG
finally!
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You know the boats been waiting too long when just mowing the grass around it feels like a big step!

With the full-sized turnbuckles, do people put a screwdriver through them or something to get better turning leverage?

Just ordered trailer hitch for my wagon and will arrange a meetup with a local daysailer club guy to get me ready for the water soon. And then it's paint time. Thanks for all the help Greenlake.
-Marcus
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:54 am

Looking good. Can't help you from own experience with the turnbuckle question, because my boat has a mast jack; I set the length once, and the jack provides the tension. But screwdriver sounds right. (Not sure whether you can or should try to hold onto the non-rotating part of the fitting with pliers or not. Hope someone else can give a definite answer.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby marcusg » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:25 pm

Sooooo close. Wife and I raised the main and jib today (or at least the best we could having never done so before.) Turns out the outhaul line was already attached to the main and there was a cleat and a loop to wind it through so that was self-explanatory. Not sure I got the sail tensioning right, but I can show that to my local guy and see what he says. Also grabbed a random piece of rope in the bag and hooked up the traveler. As you can see, the guy who sold the boat to the guy who sold it to me made a custom piece of equipment to moderate traveler...travel. heh. At least, I think that's what it's for.

My only concern now is that the lower batten in the jib is snapped in half, and the battens appear to be completely enclosed in the sail. Is it normal to have to remove stitches to remove a batten? Is that something a layman can do? Is it dangerous to the jib to try to sail with the bad batten?

Oh, also, my wife especially whether the jib sheets go straight from the clew to the blocks on either side of the boat and then to the cam action cleats next to those blocks, or whether those sheets go through the two blocks on either side of the base of the mast.

IMG-6179 (Small).JPG
jib and main up
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IMG-6181 (Small).JPG
traveler traveler
IMG-6181 (Small).JPG (69.31 KiB) Viewed 571 times
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:38 pm

The whole point of a traveler is that you can adjust its position laterally, changing the direction the mainsheet pulls on the boom. Having the traveler this far back reduces the angle over which it is effective, but it should allow you to fine tune things for upwind work up to a close reach, I'd think.

The jib sheets do not pass the base of the mast. They normally go to track mounted fairleads or blocks at the forward end of the cockpit. They are on tracks so that you can adjust the angle of pull until the sail "breaks evenly over the entire length of the luff". Translated that means, when you come into the wind, both top and bottom of your sail should stall (begin to flutter at the luff) at the same time. If not, move track forward or back to adjust.

Here's my setup for reference (jib sheet is green).

946

Some boats have the cleats directly at the blocks; I have them on the CB trunk.

If you don't have jib tracks, that would be a bit surprising given that previous owners installed a custom traveler, but you never know.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Battens

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:52 pm

Battens for the jib are not typical for DaySailers, but you can fix them easily yourself.

Just undo the stitches at the end of the batten pocket, pull out the broken one, and replace with something of similar stiffness and dimensions.

I once made a set of replacement battens for an old main from paint stirrers. (To get the correct width, I ended up ripping two of them to 2/3 of their width and gluing them edge on; felt a bit dubious but worked fine). Make sure you varnish or paint them to give a bit of protection when (not if) your sails will get wet.

Insert and re-stitch with polyester thread (the clear stuff) or fishing line, or some strands from an old polyester rope. Whatever you have at hand. Don't stress about having a sailmaker's needle, palm and all the other stuff.

You could try sailing without, but I suspect some PO found them necessary to keep the leech of your jib controlled. Replacing the broken one is quick, so probably the best to keep it that way. Don't be surprised if replacement sails don't have them.

(Speaking of which; if you end up sailing this boat a lot, you'll want to get new sails eventually. They really are something that needs regular replacement.)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby marcusg » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:46 pm

Took the boat out on the local lake for the first time yesterday and had a blast once we figured everything out and hit the wind. We also did a LOT of paddling to get back to the ramp after the wind died down in the evening (sore arms today.) The rear-mounted traveler system seemed to work fine, although the rope was often crossing the tiller and I'd definitely prefer to have it mounted on the centerboard cover. What, exactly, is the name of the hardwear needed for that? Is that what a "fiddle block" is? Or is it something else?

Also, we were quite nervous trailering the boat and there were all kinds of noises coming from our trailer. Since a Daysailer/Explorer is so light, do people use a fair bit of ratchet strappery to hold the boat solid to the trailer?

I do say, though, all problems aside (including when we first launched without the drain plug in,) when we hit that wind it was a BLAST. Also got to anchor, jump off, and do some swimming. I'm hooked. Next up I gotta research re-painting.
-Marcus
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby tomodda » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:11 pm

Marcus:

Glad you finally got her out. Answering some of your questions:

-You can either go with a mid-boom mainsheet, or and end-boom system. For mid-boom, yes, you'll need a fiddle-block. For end-boom, you'll need a rope traveler (also called bridle) and your mainsheet will most probably still go to the centerboard, but only to a single block. Note, yes, you can have a pure end-boom setup, with the sheet coming off the transom deck to your hand, but that's "just silly."

Anyway, if your rope traveler/bridle is getting tangles in your tiller, I think you have it too low. Here's a good guide for all things DS rigging:

https://www.daysailer.org/Rigging-Guide

And yes, technically a rope traveler (moving parts) is not the same as a bridle. Sill think your bridle is too low, it should be about 22 inches from deck to your lower block.

-Trailers are a subject unto themselves. Basically any money and effort that you put into your trailer are well rewarded with peace of mind while towing! What kinds of noises are you hearing? Not going to get too far into it here, but 1) Yes, you want to ratchet strap your boat tightly to the trailer and bring it up snug against the bow-stop 2) Your car and your trailer should move as a unit - meaning that when you feel your car bounce then you should see your boat in the rear-view mirror bounce the same way a moment later. If they are out-of-sync, something is wrong. And remember to tie your mast down well, front and back.. I betcha that is the source of your noise, if it's any sort of rattling. Lastly, repack the hubs, sooner rather than later. It's a pain, but - peace of mind!

Feel free to start up new discussion threads in the appropriate places on any of your new-to-daysailer questions. Of course, do a forum search first, a lot of these topics have already been discussed.

Fair Winds!

Tom

P.S. I love my EP Carry Motor, check out my review over in the Miscellaneous Section. Saves me tired arms and the company is GREAT to work with. Expensive, but in my no-humble opinion, worth every penny.
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Re: Installing a new mast without measurements

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:13 pm

Glad you had an enjoyable, if strenuous time!

The distances you want to be paddling a DS are limited. A few hundred feet. Mostly, I have my paddles for some quick manual support while docking/undocking. For any distance, I rely on a small elecric motor. Used to have a trolling motor with two lead acid 12V batteries. Worked moderately well and is cheap. I've since upgraded to the same EP Carry system used by Tom. It does deliver a bit of additional boat speed, perhaps .5 knots. but mainly its much lighter and more convenient in use. That's worth it for me. It uses about 1/3 the electric power of the trolling motor, which should make it more practical to recharge the battery with some kind of solar panel, for example (or what I sometimes do, recharge it at the destination so it's full again for the return),

Give your trailer some attention before painting the boat. You should at least narrow down the sources of your rattle. Not all are equally problematic. The fenders on my trailer rattle and nothing I've tried seems to fix it. I have my mast suspended at three points. The center is supported near the mast partners, there's a rear support that fits into the gudegeons for the rudder (it's a simple board with pintles and a slot for the mast) and for the front I built a small wooden support that I attach to the winch post for the trailer.

The middle of the mast is tied to the cleats on the deck. Front and back are secured with bungees (to keep them from bouncing) and, in addition, a bit of rope. The latter provides security, the former limits motion of the mast within any slack allowed by the rope tie down.

I use two ratchet straps, one across the foredeck and one across the stern of the boat. The latter isn't fully adequate for extended towing as the boat can shift/rotate inside the loop formed by the ratchet (and too much tension would damage the hull). If I went trailering for longer distances I would use to separate tie downs to each rear corner.

Your stern bridle, when going upwind, should be under tension and well clear of the tiller. Mine ends in a block and therefore I have two parts of the mainsheet connecting the boom to the block on the bridle.
23771318
Here's my old setup (trolling motor and before I updated to newer ropes for mainsheet and traveler. You can see in one picture how the traveler rests on the tiller when there's no pressure in the sail (going downwind in light winds).

When gybing, I take care to shorten the mainsheet before the boom comes over and that fixes any tendency of the mainsheet to tangle with anything at the rear of the boat. Here's the updated traveler with the EP Carry.
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As you can see the motor stays behind the traveler when raised and the control clears it on the outside. For longer sailing w/ the motor raised, I could loosen the screw and slide it inboard; for the trolling motor, that wasn't optional, because the motor is in the black bulb and would overbalance, so I always had to bring it in.

I'm really satisfied with my setup; I use it with a ratchet block like this:
1852
and that gives me enough additional holding power that I don't need to cleat the main most of the time.
(PS: for a center boom setup your boom needs to be stronger than for end boom or mixed. Standard DS booms are fine, but if the profile isn't strong enough the boom could bend).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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