DS II Rigging failure

For issues common to different models of DaySailer.
Except Rigging and Sails.

Moderator: GreenLake

DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:29 pm

After replacing all the running rigging and checking all the standing rigging , I took “Therapy” out for a shakedown cruise.The winds were light and forecasted to increase to 10-15k in the afternoon.
I sailed for a few hours and when on a starboard tack I was hit with a gust. I heard a loud snap, looked up and watched my mast and sails fall into the water on the port side. I quickly retrieved the sails and mast and discovered the side stay on the starboard side was no longer attached to the hull. The bolts holding the chainplate looked like they had sheered off. The remaining pieces were still in place held by the backing plate.
I was able, thanks to my trolling motor and freshly charged battery, to limp back to the marina.
Looks like I’ll be replacing all the standing rigging with new 1/8”, chain plates with 1/4” holes, New tabernacle and mast step casting.
I talked with Rudy at D&R Marine, very helpful and gracious man, and he recommended the necessary replacement parts.
A word of caution; if you’re still sailing with old original hardware, be careful!

I’m going to try and post pictures in my gallery.
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:04 pm

Sorry to hear or your rig failure. Shakedown cruises or maiden voyages have a nasty habit of finding weak spots on your boat.

You have a DSII. One of the ways that the DSII rigging is different is in the attachment for the chain plates. Some at least seem to be T shaped and are held in place by the lip formed by the deck-hull joint. If you go in the DSII area of the forum back a number of years you may find descriptions of ways to beef up that design.

For the DS1, the chainplates are bolted to the inside of the hull. The flat round head of the bolts are visible on the outside. Several people have reported on ways to beef up that design.

In either case it's definitely worth checking on whether there's play in your chainplates. That might be an indicator that more attention is needed. In principle, chainplates are also at risk from stress corrosion, where a small crack forms and migrates through the material. I don't recall any reported cases here.

If you have a keel-stepped mast, the mast won't come down, if this happens, but it will get bent.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:24 pm

Thanks Greenlakes for your response.

I finally was able to upload pictures to my gallery. The hardest part in front of me now is making sure I secure the mast in a miter box to ensure a square cut on the bottom of the mast. Everything else is simply remove & replace.

Ordered all the parts from D&R this afternoon. I have plenty to due next week.
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:57 am

Here's one of your gallery images, linked directly with a thumbnail to click on:
2658

(I inserted this code into the post:
Code: Select all
[album]2658[/album]
You will find the code in the gallery in a box called "Image BBCode" when you look at the image. You can also click on the "Gallery" button in the editor - not the one near the top with the "eye" - and it will bring up a view that allows you to click on any image in your gallery to insert into your post).

Here's your image of the underside of a DSII chain plate:
2656

Some people have replaced the backing plate with something beefier, but in your case that was apparently not the failure mode.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby Woreign » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:23 am

I recently installed a tabernacle on my DS II. I cut the mast using hacksaw. I carefully marked where I was supposed to cut and took my time.

Even if you cut slightly off from square, the tabernacle fittings will square themselves when you fit them into mast.
Woreign
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Location: Crestview, FL

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Thu May 02, 2019 8:52 am

D95C186C-3CEB-40F4-9F78-3080EF52817F.jpeg
New parts from D&R Marine
D95C186C-3CEB-40F4-9F78-3080EF52817F.jpeg (149.93 KiB) Viewed 9858 times
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Thu May 02, 2019 8:56 pm

Woreign wrote:I recently installed a tabernacle on my DS II. I cut the mast using hacksaw. I carefully marked where I was supposed to cut and took my time.

Even if you cut slightly off from square, the tabernacle fittings will square themselves when you fit them into mast.


TPO had already cut the mast. Today I stripped the bottom of the mast, borrowed a power miter box and cut about 1” off the bottom of the mast (just the damaged portion). I was able to get a real nice square cut. It took some time to get the mast level but it paid off.

I must say the new upgraded rigging from D&R is impressive. The tabernacle is a bit larger and feels much more substantial. Tomorrow I tap the mast mounts to accept the new tabernacle and then put it all back together. I will have to remove the old chainplates and backing plates and replace them with the new improved version.

Rudy at D&R has been extremely helpful.

Pictures will be posted

Hope to be back on the water Monday or Tuesday.
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 02, 2019 10:28 pm

Shim below the mast for 1" to keep the top at the same level.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Fri May 03, 2019 11:21 am

GreenLake wrote:Shim below the mast for 1" to keep the top at the same level.


Hmmmmm...which means taking out the lower portion of the mast and building it up one inch on the cuddy floor. Do I glass it in or varnish and glue the piece in? Or, leave as is since I won’t be competing in any sanctioned events.
Rudy thinks the inch difference will be taken up with the new full size turnbuckles.

I should know today after I finish the installation of the new components.

Thank you for your input. It is appreciated dry much!
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 03, 2019 12:18 pm

Just lowers your boom by 1". That's the critical measure and affects things like boom vangs. Rudy is right, not an issue for the stays.

As to how: any strong non-compressible material will do (and how you protect it from corrosion etc. depends on what you choose).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby SCKDAYSAILER » Sat May 04, 2019 10:33 am

Completed install of new chainplates and tabernacle.26672669
SCKDAYSAILER
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby TJDSII6630 » Sun May 05, 2019 5:24 pm

My chain plate bolts filed as well but before the shakedown.
Was careening her and ended up catching the mast in my hands.
I thought I made a post on bolt strength and safety factors but cannot find it.
I’ll post some numbers this week but if you torque the chain plate bolts too much
there will not be much strength left to handle the wind loads.
I used nylon insert nuts And just slightly snugged them.
Pics in my gallery of the underside of the chain plate and shims I put under the mast.
I used 1/4 aluminum and “noalox”.
Teddy
TJDSII6630
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:06 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Sun May 05, 2019 5:45 pm

The issue with the DSII chain plate design compared to the original design for the DS1 is that the bolts are loaded on tension, not shear.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby GreenLake » Sun May 05, 2019 5:52 pm

Teddy: the reason you cannot find that post is that you wrote that into the comment section on one of your gallery posts. Those comments are hard to find for anyone, unless they happen to browse your gallery.

Here's the image you posted:
2636

And here's the text:

TJDSII6630 wrote:Best to fix these ashore. Found while careening. This is the one that did not fail. Hard to tell the mast is falling until it is about on top of you, but I managed to catch it and not get brained! Inches to spare!
Do not over torque, and I do not know what it should be. I used nylon insert nuts and made them just snug. The load of the shroud will be added to the load placed on the bolt by the nut. If it is a 10-24 grade 2 the proof load is 962 lbs each, clamp/working load is 723 lbs. Leaving 239 pounds to failure. 2 bolts gives 478 pounds but there is not any safety factor at that load. I think the shroud should be at say 250 pounds, so there is not much left for the wind load and from rocking at the dock. Being just snug, the shroud can apply 1446 pounds and still be in the working load range.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: DS II Rigging failure

Postby TJDSII6630 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:47 pm

Howdy Folks,
Thought this question fit here rather that start a new thread.
Need some help with the Stemhead and tabernacle plate.

When I got the boat the rig was very slack and I've tightened things up in 3 - 4 stages.
I had adjusted the tension based on physical measurements and "TSAR" (That seems about right). Still had a slack shroud on the lee side, albeit at a higher wind as I went along.
I now have a Loose gage and the tensions are:
Fore Stay - 150 # Dieball Publication 240 - 250 # North 200 - 210 #
Shrouds - 240 # Dieball Publication 350 - 400 North 300 - 320 #
Pre-Bend - 1 inch Dieball Publication 1.25 - 1.75 North - 1 "
Top of mast to top of transom - 25' 4 " Dieball Publication 25' - 25' 3 inches (Should have measured height of mast)
Distance between the shrouds measured an inch or so above the spreaders - 41 inches Dieball Publication - Start at 36"
Spreaders are 23 inches Dieball Publication 21-22"
1/8 wire - On it when I got it
Weather Helm Much improved!

Two things I have noticed.
The top of the tabernacle has deflected down about 1/16 inch after the first 2 day trip at the present tension and there is now some interference with the tabernacle pin so I know this is new.
The stemhead had deflected up about 1/32 and I do not recall this when I got the boat. Stemhead bolts are secure and the steel plate they screw into is secure.
Both are permanent deformation.

Do I have a problem this far below the recommended tension??
When one upgrades to 1/8th wire are other parts to also be changed?
I have cut a SS plate to double the thickness of the stemhead base but did not want to weld it on until I got some advice.
I can also make a shim to take to load off of the tabernacle pins.
Teddy
Attachments
Stem Head Deflection - 150 #.JPG
Pic of Stem Head
Stem Head Deflection - 150 #.JPG (51.96 KiB) Viewed 9332 times
TJDSII6630
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:06 pm
Location: South Carolina

Next

Return to Repair and Improvement

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests