Navigation Lights

[Buster]

I'm interested in adding running lights to my DS1 for some night sailing. The bow lights are pretty straight forward. I'll probably use side-mount port and starboard. The stern light may be a challenge. To stay out of the way of the traveler, and the tiller arc, where do other users mount their stern light?

[GreenLake]

I opted for a removable solution that is easily rigged, even if underway:

It uses a commercial, battery powered set of dual navigation lights together with a base and a bungee cord. In the latest incarnation of this, the two "fingers" on the base are cut from a strip of aluminum and slip around the stem fitting (into the gap between deck and forestay). The other pieces, including the thicker part supporting the fingers are made plywood and dimensioned so the light rests on the rubrail. Everything's glued together and liberally coated with epoxy, then varnished for UV protection.

Not shown in the picture on the right is a stainless steel bolt that's epoxied in the middle of the base and onto which the light is screwed using the mounting threads that are part of the design of the nav light. The bungee goes around the forestay and hooks into the notch to secure the light.

If I'm heading out after dark (or late enough in the day that I'll expect to need lights) I rig this setup at the dock, but if I'm simply returning later than planned, I can also go forward and mount it while on the water (the DS is plenty stable enough for that).

The same brand sells an all-around white light, also battery operated. You can get it with a stand that inserts into a deck fitting. If you mount that in a corner at the stern, angled a bit aft, you should be fine while motoring. The boom is shorter than the deck, so anything mounted in the corner should be out of the way (and the raised light is needed only when motoring).

An off-center mount is permitted whenever there are reasons why a centerline mount is not practical. With the rudder / tiller occupying the center of the deck, I think that exception would qualify here.

Under sail, you need a stern light that's visible for the correct sector (135 degrees). I believe you can get one from the same brand, and would mount it on deck, pointing aft. (Simply, pointing the all-around light aft would give you the wrong sector, unless you make some kind of cap to block the other 225 degrees).

Alternatively, if you always go out with a 12V battery, you could get a set of fixed LED navigation lights and install them at the front and rear, just below the rubrail. You'll need two switches, because the stern light needs to be off when motoring. Again, you'd need a light on a pole for that; they make those for small motor boats (the socket is wired to supply the electricity). Ideally, you'd get LED lights (to save on battery) but with or without that solution is going to be pricey.

Some of the removable LED lights are really fancy with different light patterns and a magnetic base that you can mount on your boat and just clip the lights to. You'd need two, one dual red/green for the front and one for the stern that can be selected to do 135 or 360 degrees. (Technically you need to raise the 360 on a pole).

Whatever you do, you probably don't want to mount anything on your masthead.There are provisions in the regulations that allow for a "tricolor" masthead light, but quite apart from the difficulty of getting power to that location, the problem with those is that other vessels may very likely misestimate your position, because it's hard at night to account for the elevation of your light.

[TJDSII6630]

A lot will depend on where you are as to how strict the regs will be enforced, and if the local tharties understand them.

Here is a good illustration of how the lights should be.

Note there is a difference in motoring and motor sailing. R/W rules change.

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... ight-Rules.

https://www.boatingmag.com/navlightregs/

https://www.uscgboating.org/images/420.PDF

Stern light needs to be on at all times if you choose to have the R/G bow lights.

If motoring or motor sailing you will not be able to use only a hand held light as I read the regs.

I have both fixed R/G Bow lights and portable backups. I will use a portable stern light and tape off the forward portion with black electrical tape.
If I'M motor sailing I'll hoist the same LED Lantern I use as an anchor light.

I think you could tape a forward facing battery LED light on the mast for motor sailing if needed.

You could fish a wire to the stern to run a stern light from a small 12V battery.

One on each side will cover what is blocked by the rudder.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/boat-na ... gLYwfD_BwE


I will also have handy a hand held flash light to shine on them if they get too close...or throw if they get really close!

Teddy

[GreenLake]

Thanks for the links to the various guides, and great discussion.

I generally turn to the official Navigation Rules (PDF), because while I'm there, I can refresh my memory on many of the other rules as well.

Looking at one of the guides, the key sentences that apply to boats the size of a DS appear to be the following:

Powerboats and sailboats under power that are less than 20m (65.7') can substitute a single bi-color light for sidelights.

That covers the choice of bi-color or side mounted r/g lights. I would probably prefer side mounted ones for a permanent installation to be able to mount them below the rub rail in front where they are out of harms way and not blocked by sails. For intermittent use, bi-color seem so much more convenient. (In either case, I would not mount them on the widest point of the boat - see Rule 23 (d) (iii) below).

Powerboats that are less than 12m (39.4') may substitute a single all-round light for separate stern and masthead lights.

That single light needs to be raised 3ft (1m) as described in Annex i of the Navigation rules, which is possible on a DS, but requires some thought in placement. Note that hanging an all-round light from the end of the boom would work for positioning. If you keep your boat moored, you might mount a forward light above the jib and turn it on when motoring. Not really practical when trailer sailing.

Sailboats less than 7m (23') shall, if practicable, exhibit lights as explained above....

As long as you are under sail, curiously enough, there's no requirement for specific lights whatsoever; except whatever you rig should really look like what's required for bigger boats: side lights and a 135° stern light. Taping off the forward segment of an all-round light is workable, and because the rules for small sailing vessels in effect say "do the best you can", I think you should be fine using something that's not actually CG certified. (Lots of lights on the market are sold for crafts < 23' only and none of them are certified).

...An acceptable substitute is to keep ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern (flashlight) that shows a white light that shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

This includes a strong light to light up the sails. That can be very effective, and I'd recommend having that available in any case to make very clear that you are sailing and also better than blinding someone at night by trying to point a light at them. Local law enforcement here will accept that, if you use it in a timely manner on a small boat.

From Rule 23 (d) (iii) the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided that the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light.

I'm not sure about using two stern lights. Under power, you can mount the all-around light on a pole in the corner if you want; when under sail, you are to follow rule 23 as far as "practicable". That, to me, implies that you could also mount your stern light off-center enough so that its 135° segment clears the rudder. That way you avoid lighting the rudder which would be confusing at night. Otherwise you'd need two lights with half the sector mounted close on either side of the rudder so they look like one light from any distance directly behind.

[bilbo]

was stranded a few weeks ago with no wind and a motor with a blown up water pump. Thankfully, it was mid-day and I had plenty of time to paddle home. I've never been night boating and don't plan on it any time soon, but I got thinking about what it would take to add lights to my boat. Back home on small MN lakes I never was too worried. Most of the boats where I sailed were about the same size as me so a flashlight seemed more than adequate in case I was out later than expected. Here however, being in navigable waterways with very large vessels I thought it might be prudent to give it more thought.

I was thinking of mounting the red/green ones up on the bow of course, under the hull/deck joint (no rub rail on my DSII) and getting one of those small stern-light-on-a-stick things for the stern. They have a socket that I should fit on one of the coamings and the light could be stowed when not in use. I don't know whether the masthead light is needed but that too could be done. A deutsch connector near the tabernacle would allow for easy un-hooking when on the trailer. That's probably best as it would look most sailboat-y from a distance I suppose. As far as I can tell, the only difference between motoring and sailing is the masthead light.

For power I'm thinking I'll use one of my M18 batteries. Or I could get real fancy and add solar+battery. Being in FL there should be more than enough sunshine to keep things charged up, and I've been considering some multi-day trips so it would be nice to have some power for devices.

[GreenLake]

LEDs are your friends. Keep repeating this. A set of LED lights will run of a bunch of AA batteries for hundreds of hours. (there are 168 hours in a week). If you get a set that requires 12 volts, just stack your batteries 8 in a row. No need to have a dedicated 12V battery unless you need it for something else. If night boating is rare, you are better off with high quality alkaline that you replace regularly than rechargeables that may or may not be charged when you need them. (Don't forget a spare set in a watertight bag inside a watertight bag).

The stern mounted raised light is needed only under motor. Under sail, you need a transom mounted light that has the proper sector. Not 360 but 135 degrees. With the rudder in the center of the DS, you can opt for either an offset mounting location that's far enough to the side so the beam is not disturbed on one side, or two lights mounted close together on either side of the rudder so they look like one from a distance but together illuminate the full 135 arc.

I would probably go for offset myself, so as to not illuminate the rudder itself, which then presents a bright spot viewable from outside the arc.

Unfortunately, you need to alternate the illumination based on sail vs power, so you need your stick light as well.

Night sailing is a fantastic experience and I feel bad for you if you deny yourself that pleasure. It's a bit easier to ease into it, on a moonlit night or near a bright cityscape. Nothing beats the feel of sailing to an invisible wind and the lack of human generated noise. Magical.

When it comes to large vessels, I would not bet on navigation lights. Knowing where the shipping lanes are an how to stay outside of them are crucial skills...

[GreenLake]

PS: being under 7m there's not a lot of lights that are required by regulation for the DS, unless under motor. By all means, have a set of nav lights mounted, it helps people figure out the way you are pointed. However, always have an extremely bright flashlight to illuminate your sails. Trust me, nothing works better in letting someone know your are out there.

[bilbo]

Absolutely LEDs. If not for the power consumption, just for the longevity. I've retrofit my trailers with them just because it drives me nuts having one clearance light out, it's like a missing tooth.

The big shipping type ships don't worry me too bad. They seem to be predictable and do their thing. I'm more worried about the 40ft. motorboat piloted by people with no more skills than me. The shipping lanes are somewhat well known, and I don't have any business sailing in them for the most part.

The way I interpreted the picture in the rules was that for a sailboat, the only difference between sailing and motoring was the masthead light. The 135 degree stern light would be lit up regardless. I'll definitely keep the flashlights on board either way. I did see there wasn't much for a small boat, but I figured it might be best to make it look like all the other sailboats in spite of its size.

Perhaps someday I'll try night sailing on purpose, as my skillset and area knowledge increase.

[GreenLake]

The DS is under 7m long, and even under motor usually slower than 7 knots. That means all that is a required is a white all-around light. (Side lights "if practical"). There's no need to mount anything on the top of the mast (and there are even reasons not to: ships will wrongly estimate your distance and boats may miss your light being higher than that of other boats under power).

With a stern light (when under sail) and a 360 light on a pole for under power, you should be set (plus side lights). If your boom is held up by a topping lift when motoring, you may even be fine with hanging the 360 light from the end of the boom.

To alert some motor boat to your presence, flashing some lights into your sails is absolutely the best way (except if they don't look where they are going ... so have a horn ready).

I agree, it helps having sailed somewhere a couple of times during daylight, before trying a night sail, and it also helps if you can pick a place that isn't crowded with navigational hazards. You might try going on a sunset watch on a moonlit night to gradually ease into it. If in doubt, you could bring a spot light, but I've not found that necessary.

The first night sail I remember as such was less than half a year after I got my DS. It was tremendous fun (the motorboats had all gone to bed, so we had the lake to ourselves). There's a piece of canal that we could pass by tacking, something that's not practical when there's traffic. If you're comfortable sailing and navigating your boat, a night sail shouldn't present too much of a problem.

[bilbo]

Got it, thanks for the explanation. That makes things easier. I never thought about the light on the mast misrepresenting things. The people not looking are my main concern. The little bit I've sailed and visited on the coasts it seems everyone is trying to get where they're going as fast as possible. Actually, that seems to be the case with all motorized vehicles here. But everyone walks and loiters like they've got forever to get there.

Maybe I could make a shield for the 360 light so it can serve both purposes.

[GreenLake]

You could, but you'd have to move it as well. The all around needs to be at least 40" (1m)' above the side lights, while the stern light should be at the same height.

Modifying the light might void it's warranty, that is, any regulatory stamp of approval. However, under 7m you may be fine under sail, on the theory that you are not actually required to show any fixed lights.

If you are like me and switch between power and sail for every calm spot, pick something that's easy to configure on the fly.

But also let me know how many fast boats you encounter after dark. My informal statistic is that they all pretty much go home after sunset, with perhaps very few exceptions.

[bilbo]

I see. At the end of the day, I'm probably overthinking this and just about anything is better than nothing, and any set of lighting that says "I'm a boat" will suffice. I remember on the lakes back home a very select few were ever out in their boats in the dark. I've only ever been on the water in the dark here on ticketed sightseeing cruise type things, and was never really paying attention to traffic. I'll be sure to take note if I'm out after dark.

There's a place called Ten Thousand Islands along the SW coast that I think we might try exploring. It looks like shallow water that would be great for our boat, and island camping is allowed in the winter time. Supposedly they don't allow it in the summer due to nesting birds, though I don't know who would want to spend any time in a tent down here this time of year. I need to get some charts first though and find a spot to launch from. Some of the public launches were damaged during Ian and haven't been reopened yet. I might take a trip on the motorcycle over and scope things out.

I know it's not really on topic, but I saw that traditional paper charts are being phased out. The plan is to completely phase them out by 2025. If I read correctly, the charts will be electronic vector charts from that point forward, so I would think they could still be printed. There just won't be standardized numbered charts any more.

[GreenLake]

Yeah, time marches on...

I will probably continue to use my clip-on sidelights at the bow. They are fairly easy to use. For the stern light, I might switch to something permanently added to the transom as there's nothing there that supports a simple clip-on. If so, I would probably power it with AA's because my motor uses a 24V battery. On a DS1, the transom would allow me to have a small battery case in a protected location with a switch that would be in reach to turn on/off when switching between sail and motor.

While the rules read as if we are not required to be "perfect", I'd like to improve my lighting a bit to where it better approximates the standard setup. Mainly for the early/late season when returning from the beer can race can extend just past sunset.

Off-topic: there is a thread here with "marine photos". I'll see whether I can't find some nice picture from a night sail and post it there.