how many quarts to paint a hull

For issues common to different models of DaySailer.
Except Rigging and Sails.

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Postby Guest » Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:22 pm

I would say that the weight on the masthead is minimal. Maybe 35-50 pounds? Just enough for me to feel sure it wont roll up. Of course some boats may vary and it might be a good idea to attach a cinderblock to the masthead when it is all the way over to insure that it doesnt pop up.
When I careen the boat it is fully rigged, the main has a sail cover on it, the jib is bagged on deck and the 5 hp is on the transom. Remember to remove the gas tank from the cuddy! An empty boat may balance differently..

harris (hg-at-myhost.com)
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Postby Guest » Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:13 pm

For those of you who must flip the boat over. (I had to to wet sand without breaking my back) It is a good idea to put something under the bow to keep the cuddy roof from flexing too much. I used one of those big buckets you get from Home Depot for a couple of bucks and just balanced the bow on it, under the stern I used two of those milk crates under each quarter. It was just high enough to keep the cuddy off the ground. I used the above three person process to flip my boat, but the third persons job was to center the bucket and crates under the boat as it came over. Flipping it on its side may be good for painting, when you aren't bent over for a long time, but for sanding (especially old paint, and wet sanding by hand,) I would flip it over again.

J.P. Clowes (jpclowes-at-hotmail.com)
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Postby Roger » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:36 pm

Thanks for the reply. I hope to do the same this summer to do some cosmetic repair and would rather work with the hull flipped up rather than sanding with me under or standing beside the boat. What do you estimate the weight of the boat flipped? I'm sure you didn't put it on a scale, but from your experience, did the three of you at any time lift the whole boat to place it on its supports (2 milk crates and a bucket). Matt in an earlier post indicated that he thought it should be no problem to lift one end at a time. I put my back and shoulder under the stern last fall to recenter it onto the trailer, but that was with mast, boom, rudder and centerboard all aboard, and maybe the motor stored in the cuddy, (I can't remember). I would estimate 150 to 175 pounds at the one end at the very least, so doubling the figure may put the hull at 350+ pounds. Can anyone verify this, or better yet, has anyone put a scale to the hull?
Roger
 
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Postby Guest » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:40 pm

Legal hull weight rigged less sails is 575 lbs I seem to remember DS2's always seemed to weigh in about 100lbs heavier.

Matt (mhammatt-at-aol.com)
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Postby Guest » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:52 am

I once had a big wooden boat for 15 yrs, that needed paint, top to bottom every year. I thought the idea of plastic was to eliminate the painting. I suggest that a painted boat would be less attractive to a buyer than unpainted, might be best not to paint unless absolutly necessary. ~~~ If you are prepping for selling, the best treatment for restoring gloss for a couple days is a wipe down with baby oil.
But alas, I aquired a '59 vintage DS last fall with a couple coats of ugly blue paint, that was 30% off,top bottom and sides. Finally got the stuff off with 3 or 4 tries with paint remover, but not easy. The boat at 500 + lbs is a serious problem, but after reading all the advice, I did, with difficulty, get the boat on its side against a tree with a cable puller hauling on a 2x4 strongback lashed to the deck.
If you want a real hard gloss finish, I would strongly reccommend Rustoleum enamel. (But maybe not on the bottom. It is formulated with fish oil and might attract sharks.)
I will use it for the boot top, but for the sides I will try what has been used in the Boston area, an 060 Super White, by Kirshon Paints, 124 Pearl St., Chelsea, MA, 617 884 4741. I am told also avail. in colors and can be tinted. The deck is the original blue, but faded to green in spots, looks bad but I am inclined to leave it for now. The ground here is still half snow, but a robbin appeared yesterday, so its about time to "turn to".

John C. (ghampe-at-rcn.com)
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Postby Guest » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:51 pm

Roger
When I flipped it, we never actually picked up the whole boat. We planned it so that as it flipped, it landed on two of the three supports. The last quarter, we lifted, It was something I could just do myself, but I was happy to have someone help me. Also, I took everything that wasn't nailed down out of the boat. The class assn. says the minimum weight is 575 lbs, but that is with rigging, sails, and an anchor aboard. I would guess that the hull alone on my boat weighs at least 500lbs. It is a '68 so it has soaked up a lot of water in the last 30 something years. I flipped my old DSII once the same way, it weighed about the same. (OK I have this thing about buying moored boats from the coast, bringing them back to Ohio, and keeping them on a trailer.) I stripped all the paint off the bottom of both boats, it was a hard job, but I think it was worth it.

J.P. Clowes (jpclowes-at-hotmail.com)
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Postby Roger » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:06 pm

I live in central Canada, south western Manitoba to be exact, so if we got sharks in Clear Lake, there would definately be a problem. I hope to use Brightside Polyurethane, and yes the hull ABSOLUTELY needs paint, not a touch up. A previous owner left her tied to a dock during a storm, and it banged and crashed the gelcoat on both sides for about a 3 foot length from waterline to shearline. The owner, then repaired it with chopped strand mat. This is the stage where I adopted the boat, so I have some heavy sanding and fairing to do, before painting. I have picture, which I can post by email, but its definately not a show piece a this point. I wouldn't want to post it to this site until I had an after repair picture as well.
Roger
 
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Postby Guest » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:02 pm

Follow up on my 3/12/03.
I found it easy to do bottom and boot stripe with boat on its side and later complete the sides of hull, when back on trailer.
Started with so called fiberglass type paint remover @ $17/qt, but upon brotherly advice switched to common paste type @ $12/gal. Actually works better because it takes some of the gloss off, resulting in better adhesion of paint, but doesen't really penetrate much at all. Any minor softening hardens right up when the paint remover evaporates. Light sanding is all thats needed. Touched up a few dings with "Bondo" and that was it.
One of the main sails has a green panel, so green was to be the basic theme.
I had a quart of really old "Woolsey" bottom paint that came out as a blue/green, teal color, which was nice. Used about 1/2 qt, one coat only, by brush. The hull had factory inscribed waterline and boottop line, so masked those and brushed one coat of Hunter Green Rustoleum for boot stripe. (Boat rides close to 2" high at bow, empty, and about the same low at the stern.) For sides used Rustoleum gloss white, one coat, using small, old sprayer/compressor combo, used total, about 1/2 qt. (Came out mirror smooth, can almost shave by it.) Boat also has scribings on deck to resemble planking. Outer deck strake along the gunnel was done again with the Rustoleum Hunter Green. The rest of the deck was done with one coat of a Rustoleum squirt can of a satin teal. I don't like too high of a gloss on deck. The cuddy top, as well as the cockpit sides were done with a flat Rustoleum white, tinted to a light, satin green, by mixing in some of the Hunter Green.
With the newly varnished wood, I have to say that "arguably" the DS 129 is one of the best looking DS's in existance today.
P/S, if you have a hull thats worth, say less than $1,000, go Rustoleum all the way. It will look like $10,000 when your done, at a lot less cost than the fancy boat paints. === Had the old girl topping 6 kts (per GPS unit) the other day with 5 adults on board.

John C. / DS 129 (ghampe-at-rcn.com)
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Postby Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:58 pm

Pictures John, PICTURES!!

Tom (Tom.beames-at-wachovia.com)
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Postby Roger » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:59 pm

In the end, I used Tremclad, which is akin to Rustoleum at about $10 a quart (a litre up here in Canada, which is the same as an American quart). I used 1 and 1/2 quarts, and had no problem pulling the boat off the trailer by tying the stern off to a tree and slowly tipping the trailer and rolling the trailer out from under her. I used the jib halyard to careen her over then tied it down to a nearby trailer. I scrubbed and painted and left it this way for a week to harden, came back the next weekend, and careened it over the other way and left it that way for a week. The Tremclad is a soft paint and even after a week I had a bit of a mar where it rubbed rather than rolled on a roller bunk. I simply touched that area up while on the trailer. I used a foam brush for application. I can send pictures if you like.
Roger
 
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Flipping a Day Sailer

Postby DS180 » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:01 am

I found it quite simple to flip the daysailer hull using only two people and a borrowed engine hoist. It allowed me to flip it over and then lower it gently onto sawhorses without stressing anything. See post on DS180 restoration for details. Send an email to me at cfreeman[at]alum[dot]mit[dot]edu and I'll send you a photo of the hull hanging on the engine hoist. It is much, much easier to prep and paint the hull when completely inverted.

HTH,

Charlie Freeman
DS180
Charlie Freeman
s/v Kamaloha (Tayana 37) and DS180
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flip n' fly

Postby Peter McMinn » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:22 pm

Charlie:

Glad you brought up your method of flipping the boat.

I have DS 568 and it's time to fully address the hull. I'd like to use the hoist method you describe in your original post, as I need to work in my garage over the winter.

Since I don't have the luxury of an engine hoist, I'm thinking about the following alternative.

My garage has exposed 2x12 beams, which should be ample support. Planning on backing the boat into the garage and fitting two seperate ropes under fore and aft sections of the hull. I'll bring the rope tails over the beams and begin sinching up both ends with a truckers hitch or pully system, if I get creative (2.1 reduction). This should lift the boat enough for me to pull out the trailer, flip the boat in suspension, and set down on horses. Two people should be enough, though three can't hurt.

Can't think of anything that can go wrong here, short of tearing down my garage.
Life's a reach....

_/)~~_/)~~~_/) ~~
Peter McMinn
 
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Peter Flipping his boat on 2X12

Postby Dave » Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:30 pm

Peter,

Caution is the word here using your garage beams for support. I strongly suggest using some lateral bracing from beam to beam to keep the 2 x 12 from twisting. Also, trying scabbing another 2 x 12 alongside each of the other two with the same weight bearing points, at the ends. Nail off using 16p nails staggered every 6 inches. This will give you multiple years of service for lifting and keep your garage in place. Especially in an older garage.
Dave
 

Postby Peter McMinn » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:08 pm

That's sound advice. I'll work on this reinforcement first.
Thanks
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supporting the cuddy while the boat is flipped

Postby Bob Hunkins » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:37 am

I heard of someone who took a piece of wood, like a 2x4, and cut it to the right length so that it would fit between the deck and the cuddy so that it would support the cuddy while the boat is upside down. I imagine it would take some work to get it the right length. I wouldn't let the boat rest on it's cuddy unsupported. I think it could easily crack the gel coat and stress the fiberglass too much.

I prefer to have the boat resting on saw horses - sturdy enough ones, of course. I have two built for the purpose, they are even on castors so I can more the boat around in the garage.) I get two or three friends to come over, promise them beer for helping (after it's done, of course! ) and get them to assist me with the process of flipping the boat and putting it on the horses. One horse supports the boat forward of the cuddy, the other under the after deck. I make sure that the boat isn't resting on the combings.

Putting the boat on its side is another good option - for working on the centerboard, or other jobs. I just rest her against a tree:
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Bob Hunkins
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San Leon, Texas
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