Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby K.C. Walker » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:08 pm

Green Lake,

I would think those Jotz wind speed numbers would be true wind as you suspected. It's pretty easy to figure out the high wind end of things as you start getting overpowered. It's a little less obvious on the low wind end. You might try experimenting with different sail tension when you're practicing trying to make the windward mark on one of those slow evenings when you're hardly making any headway and you can really see your leeway.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Topping Lift for trailer setup

Postby Sailor Chlud » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:02 pm

Greenlake: I, too, trailer my boat to lake or bay, so I keep the topping lift attached to the mast while it is on the trailer. When the mast goes in, the boom is attached, and the TL is clipped to the boom in 10 seconds. When the mast is down, it lays neatly with the three shrouds along the mast. Off season, I store my mast outdoors, so I remove the TL from the top of the mast and store it indoors with the other lines.
John Chludzinski
DS1 #4101
Spotswood, NJ
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby csrguth » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:14 am

I'm looking for photos of how to attaché the topping lift at the top of the mast.

Craig
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1980 Rebel DS1, Sail # 11041
Pamukkale, meaning "cotton castle" in Turkish.
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1980 Rebel, Sail# 11041
Pummakale, Turkish for Cotton Castle
gallery/album.php?album_id=126
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:58 am

Craig, a couple of pix in my gallery show one method.
Tim Webb
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby jeadstx » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:50 pm

I attached a tang to the top of my masthead casting. I made sure the screws I used would not go deep enough to cause problems with the halyard.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby talbot » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:15 pm

I just put a small cheek block on the starboard side of the mast. My windex is installed on the other side. The screw or rivet length is not a problem, because fastenerscan protrude into the body of the mast. The working end of the line fastens to whatever fitting you have on the end of the boom, and the bitter end belays somewhere around the base of the mast. A couple of other things I learned:

* 4mm line, particularly with a Spectra or Dyneema core, is amply strong. However, it's a little small for handling and cleating. If you want to reduce weight aloft, you could put a small line through the cheekblock and tie it to a larger line forward of the block that runs down to your cleat. Dropping the boom on a crew/family member because the line slips out of a cleat or your fingers has repercussions that can last for years. I know this for a fact.

* Putting a topping-lift sparcleat low on the forward surface of the mast seems to snag the jib sheets on every tack. Putting the cleat low on the starboard side of the mast in line with the cheek block only snags the jib sheets on 50% of your tacks. To stay clear of other running rigging, locate the topping lift cleat high, at about the same level as a whisker pole or spinnaker ring. In fact, if you've got a whisker pole ring on the mast already, just tie the TL off there with half hitches. (You can also run the lift halyard down to the base of the mast and aft to the cockpit, but that involves some tedious tinkering with blocks and cleats.)

* Once your topping lift is in place, remember that your boom is a 10' lever with huge mechanical advantage. I once broke a vang shackle that I forget to unfasten before hauling on the topping left to tension a boom tent. If you have center-boom sheeting, you can bend the boom by pulling hard on the TL with the main sheet cleated. On the other hand, the TL makes it simple to adjust shroud tension. With the main sheet cleated, a moderate tug on the TL will slacken the shrouds enough to turn the adjusters easily by hand.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby Tipster1 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:26 am

Can anyone point me to a photo of how to attach boom TL to mast? I don't understand any reason for it to be lead back down mast to cleat. In other boats it just hangs slack when sail is raised and catches boom when main is dropped.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:11 am

@tipster

This is something I did not realize and therefore I have an adjustable topping lift out of ignorance, I suppose. However, the adjustable topping lift has worked well for me, that is, where it is led down to a cleat on the mast base.

I have mine set so that in the slack position, which is tied off, the boom drops a bit too much to be comfortable when the sail is furled on the boom and I am motoring. I've tied a loop a bit up in the 1/8 inch line that I use for a topping lift. This position works well when I furl the sail on the boom and I want it out of the way. I also use this position for my boom tent. This position is only slightly above the height the boom would be with the mainsail raised.

Maybe I should try snugging up my slack position a little bit and see if a one position set up would work for me. It would save me having to remember to release the topping lift after raising the sail.
Last edited by K.C. Walker on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby Breakin Wind » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:42 pm

seandwyer wrote:I assembled my topping lift opposite to what yours sounds like. I riveted an eye to the end of the mast and attached a bullet block near the top of the mast. I tied the line to the eye, then up, through the block and down to the base of the mast where I tie it off on a cleat. I can slacken the topping lift as much as I want - and do, the only thing holding the boom up when sailing is the sail - but no matter how slack or taught the topping lift line is, it still runs alongside the sail as opposed to over - as opposed to clearing it. So the question is - is this normal?


My topping lift is just like yours, up the mast through a block and down to the end of the boom. As nearly everyone has said, the loose topping lift line shouldn't be a problem, but if it's still of concern to you, one other option could be (if your topping lift line is long enough), just let it go entirely slack, and pull the line forward along the boom to the base of the mast to loop around a hook or small cleat. Then you can snug it up to form a sort of L that keeps the line well away from the sail. But it is one more thing to remember to unhook when lowering the sail.

Thanks - Scott
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby talbot » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:22 pm

An adjustable topping lift is useful. When reefing, you can pull the boom up the sail to ensure you get the slack out of the reef line. You can adjust the tension on a boom tent with one line. You can put some slack in your shrouds so you can adjust the turnbuckles by hand and without spalling the metal. At anchor or when rowing, you can lift the boom way clear of the cockpit so you're not bothered by drooping lines or sail. You have a utility halyard on your mast that can be used for raising anything else -- anchor light, flags, whatever. If for any reason you want to remove the topping lift, you just pull it down. If it is fexed at the peak, it stays there until you lower the mast. The only downside is the additional weight of the line along the mast and the additional cleat.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby Alan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Thanks, Talbot. I was beginning to wonder if I'd wasted the money on line and hardware for the cheek-block-at-the top-of-the-mast design.

I was thinking of installing fairleads on the mast near the shroud tangs and spreader brackets, just in case the line decides to flap around and catch on them when it's loosened. Does this make sense to anyone? If it doesn't, I won't drill holes in the mast for the fairlead screws.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby seandwyer » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:45 pm

Alan, while I think the idea of fairleads along the mast sound like a good idea, I just don't think they're necessary. I started this thread about two years ago and have had the topping lift installed that whole time--with no incidence of tangling in the shrouds or spreaders. Personally, I believe the less holes in the mast, the better. So, my advice to you is, try it without, and if it seems necessary, then add them later.
Sean
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:04 pm

+1 for what Sean said.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:49 pm

To summarize: there are two ways to make the topping lift adjustable. Only one of them involves added windage and weight aloft.

The setup with a cheek block at the top of the mast involves one line moving up the mast, and then moving back down all the way. That doubles the windage and weight.

Another system is using a fixed topping lift that's a little short and ends in an eye at the bottom end. Then running a line from the end of the boom to that eye, back down to the boom, through an eyestrap or cheek block on the boom and forward to a cleat (V cleat). This gives you a 2:1 purchase for making adjustments (great with sail and/or boom tent in place).

The range of adjustment is limited but probably sufficient. There's less weight total and definitely less weight aloft. You can disconnect the topping lift at the eye and fix it to the mast to keep it out of the way - a permanently mounted short bungee strop with a single hook would be one way, or a soft shackle from an eye strap or the mast ring.
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Re: Topping Lift / New Sail / Boom placement

Postby Alan » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:46 pm

Just when I thought we had a consensus... :D

The over-the-top setup can be adjusted from the cockpit, even when the boom is swung all the way out to one side. That's what convinced me to adopt it, even though I was dubious about running a line down the mast near the halyards. Hopefully I'll find out next week how it works.
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