Jib Furling 101

Moderator: GreenLake

Jib Furling 101

Postby hectoretc » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:56 pm

Greetings all,
This is probably a seriously lame question, but hey... if I don't knock out one a week I may forget that I don't know anything.
Bear in mind that I have yet to get my boat actually in the water, but I've been doing a great deal of driveway sailing this late summer as I've worked on making my boat (what I hope is) water-worthy for next spring.

So regarding furling jib sails, first it sounds like if one is going to frequently sail alone (which I expect to be doing), furling the jib removes a couple of challanges from the process of getting started and stopped (and many points between).

From what I've read and seen in ads, it seems like nearly all commercial (and expensive) jib furlers are just a spooling device on the bottom of the jib, and possibly a spinning counterpart connection on the top of the jib. (Right/Wrong/Something in between?) Also from what I've read and seen on this and other boards, nearly all homemade jib furlers seem to have a piece of PVC pipe or other "tube" that either rotates on the headstay or on a seperate line running parallel to it. (again Right/Wrong/Something in between?)

So I think I've figured out the actual process one uses that furls and unfurls the sail (watching videos), and I can see why the homemade furlers work, it's like a big paper towel roller with a spindle on one end... but if my premise is correct that commercial devices don't have a tube, how do they work?

Thanks for your ongoing patience for us new and confused "almost" sailers.
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:28 pm

From the systems I've seen in action on boats the size of the DS, there's no need for the PVC tube. You'll need a wire in your sail, so that it can fully replace the forestay. With a normal jib, you tension your forestay, then you add halyard tension to that. With a furler, you only have the halyard tension. Which is OK, but you need some sort of purchase to really crank at that.

It does seem to slightly complicate raising the mast, but depending on how you typically sail, it may be worth the extra trouble. I don't sail all that often in conditions where I might want to furl the jib while under way, but in thinking about it right now I just realized how often I do sail to where the destination is another dock, and a hank-on jib becomes awkward to secure.

So yeah, go for it, but in my experience it's not the single-handing that would have benefited most.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby hectoretc » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:37 pm

Thanks Greenlake, but I think I'm still missing a piece.

Without the tube, how does the jib furl? What does it roll up on? Or is that what you were saing about a wire in the sail to replace the forestay. Does it wind up on the wire? If it's a hank on Jib, how do you... what... afix? the jib to the wire so the wire doesn't just spin inside the "hanks?" (not sure of my terms here).

Thanks,
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:59 pm

Yes, the sail furls onto the wire. Some jibs have wires already because they are designed to take over tension from the forestay. Those sails would then not sag in scallops between hanks as jibs that are just "hanging" from a forestay by their hanks.

For example, the jib I have, even though it's not on a furler, does have this luff wire.
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Postby hectoretc » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:59 pm

Never mind.... I just remembered the trick on using google to search this site and found a conversation from 2007 that answers all of my questions.

Thanks all,
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby hectoretc » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:00 pm

Sorry... didn't intent to "never mind" your answer. I think we were both typing at the same time.

Thanks for the ongoing help and patience, it is always appreciate!
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby ChrisB » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:26 am

You may want to consider a "poor man's furler" like the one described on the url below. It consists of a 1/8" retrieving line that runs from the head of the jib down the luff (inside the hanks), through a turning block at the deck and back to a cleat on the cuddy roof. When you want to take the jib down you ease the halyard and pull the retrieving line. This pulls the jib right down to the deck. I sail solo and I use this on my boat and it works like a charm. I take the jib down from the cockpit of the boat.

http://web.mac.com/overholtzer/impliedc ... nhaul.html
Chris B.
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Postby GreenLake » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:12 pm

hectoretc wrote:Sorry... didn't intent to "never mind" your answer. I think we were both typing at the same time.

Thanks for the ongoing help and patience, it is always appreciate!


That's alright.

BTW: Search being what it is, if you find an old thread, why not link a pointer here?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby jeadstx » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:38 pm

For the Texas 200 I added a jib downhaul to my boat rather than a furler. It allowed me to pull the jib down from the cockpit and secure it without getting on the fore deck.

My downhaul was rigged by attaching a small block on the bow and running a 3/32” line thru two small fairleads to the cockpit. The end of the line I attached to the hank near the head of the sail and ran the line through the other hanks. This system worked very well when needed to get the jib down, especially in the high winds. Pulling the jib sheets tight kept the sail on the deck until it was secured.

Image

Image

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Postby hectoretc » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:31 pm

BTW: Search being what it is, if you find an old thread, why not link a pointer here?


I've looked at the FAQ and other obvious places and see how to include an external link, but don't see how to do an internal link referencing another posting.

Can anyone provide some guidance?

Thanks,
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby GreenLake » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:56 pm

It's simple: once you have the link, click the URL button, add the link, and click the URL button again (or the "Close Tags" link).

The code in your editor will look like the code in this box.

Code: Select all
[url]http://daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3847[/url]


When you hit preview, that turns into:
http://daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3847

Now, where do you get your link?

In most browsers, if you right-click on the title of the thread either in the list of threads or at the large title at the head of the page, you can select "copy link location" or "copy shortcut" depending on your browser.
After that, you can then paste the link.

For an individual post, the link hides under the little white Image (or orange Image) next to the word "Posted" , so you right click on that one to get the link.

Now if you want to get fancy and write something like "See the thread on Jib Furling 101" then your code would look like this:
Code: Select all
See the thread on [url=http://daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3847]Jib Furling 101[/url]


Note how the first command has changed from "url" to "url=" with the link now inside the first set of square brackets, directly after the "=", and a new "friendly" text now takes its place between the two tags.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:18 pm

I use pretty much the same jib DH as described, but it never occured to me to run it through all the hanks? It's just hanked on the top one, goes down thru the block that's shackled to where the forestay is attached to the stemhead, and leads back to a small horn cleat mounted on the deck just inboard of the stbd chainplate. When the jib is up, I cleat it off so that there's just enough tension on it that it's not flogging around, but not so much as to negate halyard tension ...

I've considered a roller furler on and off over the 6 years The Red Witch has had me, if for no other reason than to be able to roller reef the jib, which you can't do with our poor man's downhaul, but for a trailer sailor, it's just too much hassle. I have friends with larger boats (Precision, Catalina) who have it, but their setup time is WAY longer than mine, and part of that is the hassle of putting up the rig with a roller furler/forestay combination ...

To answer one of your questions: the ones without a "tube" have a foil-like device, with a boltrope slot much like the mast has for the main, which the sail is fed up through. May or may not be incorporated with the forestay. This foil rotates and the jib winds around it. And yes, they have some sort of swivel connection at the top, as does any furler system ...
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Postby hectoretc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:09 pm

Greenlake - Thanks for the URL reference information. I guess I was expecting it to be harder.
The Jib Furler discusion I found spanned 2007 into early 2008 and talked about "dowsing" systems which are similar to those discussed here as a way to quickly pull down the jib, and some fairly inexpensive Jib Furler options as well. Given these kinds of results, I've started to methodically work backward from the early posts in each of the categories as I have time to read. A lot of very good information is archived here.

http://www.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1985 is the link in case anyone else wants to take a trip down history lane.

A sad but "sign of the times" reference here is that the inexpensive Jib Furler mentioned was $100 complete in 2008 and now $150 but I guess that's how things work. Still good information.
Thanks all for the inputs.
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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Postby jdoorly » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:59 pm

Hey guys, your being too hard on furlers, so I gotta speak up! I love mine. I have 2! They are easier and faster to rig than a 'hank on' jib, and with my (non-standard) set-up sometimes I leave them attached and can still drop the mast.

Both of mine are on Harken 431 (?) furlers. I bought them at Defender for $212 each last year. They came with the bottom drum unit and a swivel for the top. I added snap shackes top and bottom. btw- a local marine store had a bottom unit hanging on the wall for over a year and only wanted $89 for it.

The only problem with it is that you can't reef it. for reefing you would need to minimize twist between the upper and lower units with a tube or foil. Man I wish I had the mainsail on a furler too!
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Postby hectoretc » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:15 am

ChrisB wrote:You may want to consider a "poor man's furler" like the one described on the url below. It consists of a 1/8" retrieving line that runs from the head of the jib down the luff (inside the hanks), through a turning block at the deck and back to a cleat on the cuddy roof. When you want to take the jib down you ease the halyard and pull the retrieving line. This pulls the jib right down to the deck. I sail solo and I use this on my boat and it works like a charm. I take the jib down from the cockpit of the boat.

http://web.mac.com/overholtzer/impliedc ... nhaul.html


This post doesn't cite it directly, but it's the reference I remembered and could find easily. Using the furler or as ChrisB describes above a "pull down" line on the jib, I've seen references to needing to do this quickly under somewhat concerning wind conditions to quickly regain control. Is there a need/use for a similar pull down line for the main or is the concern really just to get the jib out of play quickly in those cases. I'm aware of reefing, but that process sounds more methodical and something you do when in a at least somewhat stable recovered condition to proceed?
DS #6127 - Breakin' Wind - From the land of 10,000 lakes, which spend 80% of the year frozen it seems...
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