Boom storage for trailering

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:20 am

What's wrong with your front support that a bit of bungee cord, or a black rubber strap can't fix? If your cuddy is open, you should be able to hook something in that opening that's strong enough to hold the boom in that nice V holder. For really long trips, some line tied to the jib fairleads would provide positive prevention of sideways movement, but for just across town from the launch just keeping the boom down (preventing it from bouncing) should keep it in place.

Or am I missing something about your configuration?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:56 pm

As a general rule I like to avoid using bungees, tie down straps, etc., or basically anything that has to be tied/untied, whenever possible, because they make rigging/unrigging take longer, and are just more stuff to keep track of.

As it is, I have one rubber bungee at the forward mast support that used to do double duty as my "poor man's tiller tamer" (have a proper Davis one now), but now goes into the car while I'm out, one at the aft mast support, and one bungee-ball thingy that holds the stays to the mast, and does double duty by holding up the main halyard swivel cleat until the mast is stepped ...

My first consideration when pondering any change to my "system" is: is it worth the extra time and hassle? If it is, how can I best accomplish it in a way that will be the "cleanest/fastest" solution?

With that in mind, and thanks to all for your suggestions, I think I'll try this:

Type 8 loop riveted to aft mast support (thx 4 the idea GL!):

1260

Mainsheet holding the boom down snug:

1261

Bow vee thingy with a wider slot cut in it, that can still also be used on the bottom lip of the cuddy opening for boom storage, when the boat is parked and the cockpit cover is on:

1262

The more I look at the setup, the more I'm convinced that the vee will stay in place like this, and the boom won't "sway" side to side, so to speak. Will try it out on the next trip to the lake ...
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Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:37 pm

Tim, I'm totally with you on the need to cut out steps in rigging / de-rigging. When your boat lives on a trailer, you can spend more time doing those than sailing...

I keep finding steps to eliminate, so, even as I add some complexities to my rigging, the time spent on launching has decreased rather than increased over time. (Retrieval is another matter - that depends on time of day and level of fatigue after the sail... :shock: )
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Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:06 am

I hear ya GL: us trailer sailors need to shave off every possible second from the setup time!

My goal has always been leave work at 5, splash boat by 6. Home/boat is 2 miles West from work, and lake is 10 miles North of here. Usually I make it, other times, well, ...

This time of year, as the days get "longer", the pressure's off a bit, but in the Fall, in those last waning days of DST, ya really gotta git yer game on! :P

As for retrieval/unrigging, there's no hurry, but as you say, it depends. Usually by the time I get back to the dock, on a typical evening sail, all the inconsiderate shiny bass boats have already given up and pulled out for the day, so I usually have the place to myself (why nobody else sails on Lake Dias is a mystery to me). So, it's usually a leisurely affair, without much attention to time ...
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Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:48 am

How do you attach your jib? I'm using a Prusik knot on the sheet, with a soft shackle for my hanked on jib. No metal fittings to fly about, and a nice qiuck connect for the jib sheet.

Mainsheet stays rigged, obviously, what else?

Rolling the sails is a pain (esp. for the main) but a necessity.

As I sail a DS1, my boom gets wedged between transom and seat on seat cushions and rest on a fender on the thwart (tied with a bungee). Not as fancy as your setup, but needs no dedicated parts.
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Postby Jeepman252 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:36 am

TIM WEBB wrote:1259


Tim,

What is this support attached to at the stern? And I agree that making a large hole in it may weaken it too much for the mast.

Thanks!
Larry
'83 DSII
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Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:42 pm

I have a roughly similar type of support (wood, and no roller) and it simply uses a set of pintles to fit into the gudgeons where the rudder normally goes. It goes back to some PO decades ago, but up to now, it's proven plenty strong for the purpose.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

I use this for the jib sheet attachment to the clew of the jib:

1263

The jib sheets stay rigged in their cam cleats for storage and trailering. I pull them both tight so this snap is suspended (closed) above the CB trunk, and the running ends of the sheets live in the cuddy. Barber inhaulers stay rigged too. Just have to make sure I remember to loose the sheets and bring this snap forward of the mast hinge before stepping the mast! Remember what I was saying about "systems"? :D

I find that the snap doesn't bang around on the deck or mast or anything, as long as I pay *some* attention to jibsheet handling. The blocks on the ends of the inhaulers on the other hand ... :?

The swivel feature keeps the sheets from twisting up if/when the sail flogs. This snap also leaves plenty of space in the clew grommet for the hook on the whisker pole ...

As to the aft mast support: it has pintles on it that go into the rudder gudgeons, but I'm planning on adding some sort of "lip" to it that will go over the transom and relieve the vertical stresses on them. Hasn't been a problem - yet - just one of those things that make you go "Hmmm ... what could possibly go wrong?" ;-P
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Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:15 pm

BTW, the roller on top of the aft mast support just makes it easier to step the mast: roll it back, pin the hinge, and up she goes! :D

Oh, in case you were wondering: in the background of that pic is our ever-patient White German Shepherd named Balto, just waiting for me to quit "messing around in boats" and take him to the dog park! Took him sailing once: he didn't like it too much, and jumped overboard! That's how we found out he could really swim after all. No "DOB" drill was required tho, as the winds were almost nil, and he just swam right back to the boat. Getting his 70 lbs back on board was another matter tho ... 8)
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Postby GreenLake » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:57 am

I have a keel-stepped mast. That means, it's longer, so there's hardly any weight on the pintles as I don't like long rear overhangs. (Rather have it hang over the towing vehicle a bit). In fact, I use a bungee to make sure the mast doesn't pull the support out of the gudgeons.

The PO had a short section of mast that serves as a support for the mast. Inserted into the mast partners it's an incredibly "fixed" point for a cradle.

I keep the jib sheet tight, like you, but in front of that mast support, so I won't be caught by it ending up on the wrong side of the mast.

Barber haulers are not tight. Mine have some Laser blocks at the end, which I make sure will come to rest on a bit of jib sheet that is suspended in mid air. "Hand tight" for the haulers will position the blocks that way.

I should switch the outhaul to a soft shackle, that would allow me to rig it faster (leave it on boom - right now it's on the sail)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:31 am

For sure: before my mast got it's hinge, it was keel-stepped (obviously), and stuck out much further on both ends. Curious thing is tho: when it was one-piece, I would trailer it with the top of the mast forward, stuck out *way* over the car. Now, with the hinge, I leave the side stays attached, and put the base of the mast forward on the bow support ...

I use this to make sure the aft support stays in the gudgeons:

1264

I think it's a pretty well-balanced rig. I see a lot of pics of boats where the forward mast support is much lower, but what with the hatchback on the PT, that wouldn't work so well ...

Also, I've never really seen a need to support the mast in the center, i.e. above the partners, as again, with the hinged mast, it's not too far from the front to the rear supports, and the mast is pretty "bendy" anyway ... ?

Hmmm ... might have to look at that way of keeping the jib sheets forward of the mast hinge! Systems, systems, systems ... <grin>

Even if I forget, it's a simple matter of undoing one of the figure 8's in the end of one of the sheets and re-routing it around ...

Here's a couple more pix of the boom trailering setup:

1265

1266

My outhaul is still a block. The Spectra loop you see in the pix is an extension for the topping lift for reefing. Yes, I've tried to get rid of as much hardware as possible, stainless or not, that goes into the sailbag ...
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Postby GreenLake » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:22 am

What prevents your mast from turning into a missile, should you be involved in a crash?

I tie the mast to a pair of cleats on the cuddy top, by wrapping a short line around the mast and then belaying both ends. If the mast were to slide forward, that loop of line would tighten further, keeping the mast both down and back.

I also wrap my painter around the mast, after belaying it on the foredeck center cleat. That's a backup system (It also serves to secure the end of stays and halyards).

At least two cleats have to rip out before the mast can fly. I'm hoping that's enough. The rear end is secured as well, so add the breaking force of my rear mast support. (However, that's only a 1x4. Might be a reason to beef up that piece - although it's served well in normal use.)

As in the center, I secure the rear by wrapping something entirely around the mast - it's "only" a bungee, but the extra loop will tighten if you try to slide the mast through, whereas a single strap in the shape of a U relies entirely on friction against the support - and in your case that's a roller!

My boom, if an impact were to overwhelm the bungee, would fly only into the cuddy, where it would possibly damage the hull but unlikely to be a risk to bystanders. On your photos, it looks like the boom could travel quite a bit, building up speed, before being checked by the mainsheet. (The mainsheet appears to pull forward, so it would go slack first, if the boom were to move in response to an impact).

The problem with letting it build up speed is that it leads to shock loads on the mainsheet block when it reaches the end of its travel. It also looks it would be free to rotate if a violent enough impact knocked it loose. You certainly don't want the front of it to be able to spear an accident partner as vehicles slide past each other after first impact.

(although otherwise great jousting technique 8) )

I apologize for the grisly chain of thoughts, but I think, given potential consequences, it's probably worth thinking this through. (Same reason why I use two sets of ratchet straps to hold boat to trailer...)
Last edited by GreenLake on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:04 am

The forward mast tie down bungee thingy is double wrapped around the mast, *behind* the support.

I would think that in a high enough speed, direct head on collision, the whole boat/trailer would become a missile, no matter how well you have things secured ... ?

I *did* recently switch from a 1" wide side to side tie down to a 2" one made from seatbelt webbing, due to this very concern. Also, even if the mast were to come loose, the shrouds would keep it from going too far. Same with the boom: the mainsheet would catch it, and if the sheet attachment isn't strong enough to do that, it sure ain't strong enough to be a mainsheet attachment! Same goes for a side impact: the sheet should keep the boom from going anywhere ...

I admitted when I started this thread that I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, and perhaps I have, but I tend to look at "real life" situations, not "worst case scenarios" (with a few exceptions) ...
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Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:06 am

Tim, great question. I've seen lots of footage of crash tests for cars, but never for trailers. I have a friend who's seen what happens when a boat falls off a trailer on the freeway (it passed the tow vehicle :) ).

So, I always like to imagine what a particular setup will do under shock loads. Anyway, looks like your mast is more firmly attached than I could glean from your pictures.
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Postby jeadstx » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:20 pm

On a company trip to Port Aransas last September, a guy I work with was pulling a 20' fishing boat and while waiting to turn he was rear ended by a small car going about 60 mph. The impact launched the boat off the trailer, over the bed of the pickup and the boat and motor skid across the roof of the trucks cab before landing in the road. The trailer tongue embedded itself into the rear of the truck. I don't know how well he had his boat secured to the trailer. The boat and trailer were totaled. I saw both shortly after the accident. The truck had some pretty good damage as well.

Since then I've thought some about what would happen if I was ever hit like that. I'm pretty sure that my mast overhanging the stern might impale the driver before the boat would get hit. The boat might hit the back of my Jeep, although my front mast support might absorb some of the damage. At the front of the trailer the mast is higher than the top of the Jeep, so I don't think I would have to worry about that. I secure the boat with the winch on the bow and a heavy strap near the stern.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
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