Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

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Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby RhodySail » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:49 pm

Hi All,

So i recently came across a rather old, but functioning, schaffer roller furler bottom and top swivel that seems to be the appropriate size for the DS.

Does anyone have any experience using a hank on jib which has a wire to carry the halyard tension on a furler system? Basically I'm hoping I'll be able to replace my forestay with the jib and furler. My question is will the jib furl if I put enough tension on that wire or will the wire jsut spin inside the sail?

If anyone has experience I'd love some pointers. There were some links in an older post but they were disabled and I haven't found anything particularly helpful as of yet.

Thanks.
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby jdoorly » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:57 pm

I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work, but here is some things to consider...

The drum unit and the swivel unit take up X inches of space in addition to the jib luff between the stemhead and the jib halyard block, you may not have enough length, or need too much mast rake to deploy a furler.

When I got my UPS from Doyle Sails they suggested I use the UPS or jib luff wires as a fore stay. I tried this for a season but since I dry-sailed and the mast comes down after each sail, and my mast raising system involves a 4 to 1 purchase on a fore stay it worked better for me to have a real fore stay. BTW, I have both my jib and my UPS (asymetrical spinnaker) on furlers and I only put up one sail at a time even though the jib mounts to the stemhead and the UPS mounts out at the end of a bow sprit.

I have had some difficulty getting enough tension on the jib halyard, especially when I used to run my halyards back to the cockpit. I tried several different ways of getting better leverage on the halyard but the best so far is simply leading the halyard straight down to a cleat on the mast, getting a wrap on the cleat, pulling the halyard sideways from the mast, pulling the slack out at the cleat and cleating the halyard. If you need more tension than that you'll have to use a purchase on the last few inches.

When a boat is equipped with a furler there are 2 ways to come-about. The regular way is to turn the boat through the wind, release the jib and pull in the new leward sheet. However, with a furler you have the option of simply rolling the sail up, tacking and unrolling the sail. The reasons for doing it this way might be that it is easier while single-handing or easier in stronger winds, or your UPS is on a furler and it will get tangled in the fore-stay if you tack or jibe.
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:11 pm

The "purchase" you can get using the sideways pull trick is actually quite substantial. If it weren't for the small losses you incur when trying to pull your "gain" around the cleat to lock in the higher tension, it would be hard to beat.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby RhodySail » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:22 pm

So do you put the top swivel of the furling system to the Jib Halyard and get your forestay tension with the jib halyard? I was thinking that on a system this small I would be eliminating the Jib Halyard by cutting the luff wire to the forestay size (making adjustments for the swivels, etc.) and swaging it to the gromet at the head of the jib.

I suppose you it would be fairly simple to run the halyard to a shackle of the top swivel but I'd think the halyard would twist if that top swivel ever got a litle firction.

Basically I don't want to buy a new jib right now and I'm trying to figure out how get my old one to fit when I should probably bite the bullet and have new sucker made up that will fit.
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby jdoorly » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:41 pm

Hi RhodySail,

When I converted my jib from hank-on to furling I first measured how much extra halyard there was between the halyard block and the halyard shackle. The easy way to do this is to raise the jib without attaching the tack, Raise is all the way until the halyard shackle jams in the halyard block, then cleat the halyard. Now measure the distance from the jib tack cringle to where the jib tack cringle would be if it were properly secured to the stem head shackle. I think I had about 10 inches. My furler drum (Harken 435) was 2.5" pin to pin, and the swivel was 2.5" pin to pin, I needed only 5 inches to install the furler so had plenty of room with 5" of extra halyard. The jib halyard should have some room between the shackle and the block otherwise you won't be able to tension the halyard and thereby the jib luff. There should be no 'scalloping' of the luff.

Of course, this assumes that the mast rake is set within reason; if you have a DS1 you can search "mast rake" and maybe find the distance from the mast truck to the transom, if you have a DS2 you can use your trailer jack to level the cockpit floor and then use a protracter level to set the mast at 6 degrees (leaning aft) and then experiment for helm balance (less rake if too much weather helm).

I wouldn't suggest cutting the luff wire, the fore stay should be longer anyway, and you never want the sails to see more sun (UV) then necessary. Check that your jib is the right size for a DS: 15 feet from tack cringle to head cringle, 7 feet from tack to clew, 13 feet from clew to head.

Don't worry about the swivel getting bound up and the halyard twisting, I'll guarantee it won't as long as you stay away from the Earth's Poles and the Sahara Ocean.
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby RhodySail » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:23 pm

jdoorley,

So it sounds like your top swivel is connected to the jib halyard which and you marked roughly where the appropriate rake was on the halyard and cleated it off accordingly?

That seems like the easiest solution. I know from sailing her that there was plenty of space between the head of the sail and the halyard block which should allow plenty of room for swivels when tightening the halyard.

I'm jsut worried a well-meaing friend will loosen the jib halyard thereby my forestay tension but I suppose I can work around that.
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Re: Roller Furler Onto Wire Jib???

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:01 pm

I'm just worried a well-meaning friend will loosen the jib halyard thereby my forestay tension but I suppose I can work around that.

I own another small boat that has a furling sail set up with the halyard providing the "forestay" tension. The halyard is wire, ending in some kind of fitting to which a tail of rope is tied. The PO had rigged the mast above the cleat with a metal "claw". If you loosen the rope on the cleat, the claw will catch the fitting on the wire, which should prevent accidental loss of the mast. (Incidentally, before being cleated off, the rope part goes through a few blocks, creating a 2:1 purchase for better tensioning).
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