DaySailer.org Forum

Greetings all,

Question - Can anyone think of a sailing scenario, experience or situation where you would want/need to cleat off both of the jib sheets at the same time? I have this idea in my head for a single jib sheet cam-cleat with a sort of sagging T shaped fairlead in which both jib sheets would pass, but the single cleat would service both. It's not groundbreaking or earth shattering technology, and it's probably more work than just putting two cam-cleats side by side, but for the specfic solution I'm thinking about, I may build up a prototype just to try it out. But before I do that, I'm of course curious if there is a scenario that would render the concept invalid.

May as well get that out of the way first.
Thanks - Scott

Very occasionally, I've seen someone use the "other" jib sheet. I've used both jib sheets in conjunction with a whisker pole in very light airs, doing so gave a firm position to the pole.

However, those uses are rare enough, I believe that you don't need to account for them. What I wonder is how your scheme would work, because the slack sheet has to be really slack.

The dual cleats allows eac sheet to be lead fair. You are proposing a Barney post with two sheets. If the working sheet is led fair, then the lazy sheets would not. I think you should stay with the proven design.

I use both of mine to keep the jib out of the water after dropping it. Usually when I'm at the dock, waiting to pull the boat out of the water.

jpclowes wrote:I use both of mine to keep the jib out of the water after dropping it.

+1 on that.

Beyond that, I would be concerned about the jib sheets getting fouled in the "Tee Fairlead". I envision this sceanario; a moderate to heavy air day. I tack and mid-way through the fairlead fouls so I end up on the new tack with a backwinded jib. The backwinded jib pulls the bow around further, loads the main and I go for an unintended swim before I can get to the new windward rail.

When I solo sail, I tie the jib sheet ends together so I can always reach both jib sheets from the windward rail of the boat.

ChrisB wrote:When I solo sail, I tie the jib sheet ends together so I can always reach both jib sheets from the windward rail of the boat.

+1

The situations when you need both cleats (e.g., tacking rapidly in a narrow channel, or backwinding the jib to force the bow around) are times when (a) time is of the essence, and (b) failure to accomplish the maneuver may result in losses greater than the cost of a cam cleat.

There is a difference between simplicity of form and simplicity of function. In this case, I think the simplicity of form achieved by eliminating one jib cleat would result in a more complicated and frustrating sailing experience.

talbot wrote:There is a difference between simplicity of form and simplicity of function.

I believe this may be the most elegant, truest quote I've ever read!

Hey, did you steal that from Frank Lloyd Wright? Nah, that one had a "follow" in it ...

@talbot: Nicely put.

However, there are successful self-tacking setups and for those, you have one control for the tension of the jib and one for the sheeting angle. Assuming that you apply the latter more often/quickly would result in a situation where you mainly operate a single cleat.

Rapid tacking should be possible with a self-tacking jib, but back-winding is not available without additional complexity (ability to lock the jib on one side).

I've frankly had difficulties in trying to visualize the design suggested here, so I can't really compare it to standard self-tacking setups.

@ Talbot: Nicely put + 1

That makes two quotes from this forum that have made it to my "wall of quotes". You guys are deep!