Rope for various lines

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Rope for various lines

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:51 pm

Green Lake, I think the small-diameter hook is the answer. Mine is a quarter-inch and blunt enough that it doesn't want to get into the Amsteel loop easily while it's under tension.

Talbot, the problem is the tail/Amsteel joint is past the turning block and it's a tight fit through the block.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:53 pm

Let me know how it works out.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby RobH912 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:06 pm

GreenLake wrote:Right around that time I also upgraded the main sheet to FSE Robline racing sheet in 3/8".
Image
That rope has an interesting "rag wool sock" feel to it, best I can describe it. It is nice and grippy, runs well and works fine in the single ratchet block I use on the boom (above the still original CB trunk fitting). I had much earlier changed the transom setup to a traveler like the one described in Phill Root's Rigging guide.


GL - see this post going back to 2015. Do you still like the FSE Robline racing sheet? A little hard to find these days. I went to FSE Robline site (Austria) and the dealer locator function pointed me to West Marine for US. West Marine's site says "This item is no longer available." Do you know of site that offers the racing sheet product?

While on the WM site I also looked at some of the New England Rope Products. Anyone use the Regatta Braid for a main sheet? Felt pretty good to me when I went to a store. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/new-engl ... ecordNum=2

Anyone have other suggestions for main sheet line?
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby GreenLake » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:59 pm

Supposedly, you can special order it from https://www.fisheriessupply.com/fse-robline-racing-sheet-pro. Maybe I should order a replacement while it's still available. Really like this for the mainsheet.

If you go back in the thread, K.C. Walker suggested an alternative (Bzzz).

Don't know about Regatta Braid, although my local store carries it. Will have to check it out next time I go there.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby talbot » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:02 am

Fisheries supply is a good source. Selection not as great as some places, but have really good prices on some products.

In traditional kernmantel construction, I like Robline Dinghy Lite (all polypro, weighs zilch) and Samson Trophy Braid (all polyester, with a fuzzy sheath that makes it really easy to hold. I used the former for light air, the latter for heavy weather.

Note that Teufelberger, the makers of Robline, also own New England ropes. If Robline dropped its soft braid, it might have been to avoid brand confusion with NE's competing products.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby RobH912 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:29 am

Talbot - Interesting that Teufelberger owns both FSE Robline & New England Ropes. I'd missed that, and I'm sure that product managers work to keep products distinct. You've got the Dinghy Light in 5/16?

GL - thanks for pointing out K.C. Walker's post on Bzzz. I do see that Fisheries Supply has the Robline Racing sheet pro 3/8 as a special order item in Red only.

A couple of weeks back I went to my local West Marine but found that their at store selection of lines was not very good. They did not have Bzzz, and they only had Dinghy Light in the 1/4" which felt too thin in my hand and didn't seem appropriate for a DS mainsheet. I liked the feel of 3/8 Regatta in my hand... maybe more the size of the line than the line itself...

Realizing that selecting lines is like "Goldilocks" and unfortunately it seems hard to get to a store that has my options "in hand."

Fisheries' pricing looks very good. 5/16 Dinghy Light is $.53/ft vs. West Marines' at $.99

Since it is winter have some time to figure the main sheet out.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:09 pm

I'm still using the Bzzz line and put it on a couple of other boats, as well. It is soft in hand and grippy. It definitely looks like old socks now, but it still holds well in the ratchet block. I use the lighter smaller diameter for my jib and Utility Power Sail. The UPS has quite a lot of sheet load and the Bzzz holds really well in the auto ratchet blocks. A couple of nice things about it is that it holds no water, so it remains really lightweight. Being a single braid, it doesn't tangle at all or get twisted. Also, because of being a single braid of soft fiber it has very low internal friction going to the blocks. This means less effort to pull in the sheet under load. It's also very reasonably priced. I get mine from Intensity Sails. I sail in the same series as Jim Myers, who owns that company, and he's a really good guy. Geez, I should sell this stuff! :-)

Honestly, I switched from double braid original and was so happy with this that I really never tried anything else.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby RobH912 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:33 pm

K.C. Walker wrote:I'm still using the Bzzz line and put it on a couple of other boats, as well. It is soft in hand and grippy. It definitely looks like old socks now, but it still holds well in the ratchet block.... Geez, I should sell this stuff! :-)

Honestly, I switched from double braid original and was so happy with this that I really never tried anything else.


K.C. - You are so enthusiastic on Bzzz, it is a lot less expensive than FSE Robline Racing Sheet Pro, and Bzzz is easier to get that, I ordered some last night for my main sheet.

Maybe you should sell this stuff :D
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby GreenLake » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:13 pm

When I upgraded my halyards to use Amsteel with a double braided tail in 2012, I discussed that project in a different thread, but apparently never collected those details here.

GreenLake wrote:I'm in the process of replacing the halyard with Amsteel as well. In this context, check out the website http://l-36.com.

He describes how to splice a halyard http://l-36.com/halyard_splice.php

I found the descriptions easy to follow, but, here's the caveat, the dimensions he gives didn't work for me. I hadn't used Sta-Set, but "equivalent" rope from another manufacturer, and it was just a bit too wide, so that it simply wouldn't fit the opening in the Amsteel.

Solution: I used a short length of larger diameter Amsteel to make the splice, and then spliced the Amsteel using a Brummel splice. To be deployed whenever I get to take out the DS this season.


In that thread, another user mentioned that he had an existing tail with a loop and simply used a loop splice to connect. The advantage to him, was the ability to connect a halyard tensioner at that point.

Then, somebody asked "Why not use Amsteel for the full length of the halyard?" and this was my reply:

GreenLake wrote:The main reason for adopting a split Amsteel / double braid solution for the halyard is that the Amsteel is can be sized very thin and is very slippery. This makes handling the halyard unpleasant. It is better to make the part that is being handled from a more grippy material - which also doesn't have as low-stretch.

There are ropes that are Dyneema core with a very grippy cover. These can be used for halyards at rather low diameters, but they are grippy enough to be handled (with gloves, because you'll want to use the narrow diameter). And there's no need to change construction - in fact, it's not possible to splice rope line that.


If you want to look up the full discussion thread, you can find it here.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby bilbo » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:53 pm

I read about Tim Webb's jib sheet setup and I'd like to duplicate that. The way I see it, the sheets can stay on the boat when the sail is removed. Unless I'm mistaken, it's one less thing I have to set up and take down, just simply attach the soft shackle to the sail.

Tim, how did you do that? I've read through a bunch of different instructions on soft shackles and none have anything that I could bury into the sheet line. Are there tails hanging off that were buried? I suppose I could just tie a knot in the sheet and use a soft shackle to attach the sail to that, but Tim's solution looks more elegant.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby GreenLake » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:17 pm

Tim has moved and has moved on to a different boat. I'm not sure how often he checks back here "for old time's sake".

The question is about some way to disconnect the sail from the jib sheet, so the latter can stay on the boat. There are four solutions.
  1. Tie the jib sheets into a metal shackle. On some boat classes it is common to have a small board instead of a clew grommet. This board has several holes, which effectively allows an adjustment of the clew position. The only way to connect to that would be with a metal shackle. However, the downside of a metal shackle is the way it can damage things if/when the jib ever flogs.
  2. Tie the jib sheets into a soft shackle. A soft shackle is just a loop of rope, usually Dyneema, which is closed with an eye and button knot (usually a Diamond Knot). They are easy to make, and instructions are plenty on the interweb.
  3. Use a single jib sheet, and instead of tying into the soft shackle, wrap the latter around the midpoint of the sheet like a Prusik Loop. That's the setup I have. This works better if the diameter of the sheet is larger than that of the soft shackle. (Tying a Prusik Loop is dead simple, look it up).
  4. Use a single jib sheet, and thread a very thin soft shackle through the midpoint of the sheet. With Amsteel or other Dyneema rope you can go to rather small diameters and still not be in danger of the soft shackle failing. The advantage of "sewing" the shackle to the sheet is that it can't get lost. This is, I believe what Tim had.
The advantage of having a thin connection between sheet and sail is that any flogging of the sail doesn't communicate itself to the sheet quite the same way, and the advantage of a single sheet is that it has way less of a tendency to hang up on anything - that advantage improves if the button knot for your shackle is small. It doesn't matter as much whether a thin soft shackle is sewn into the sheet or attached like a Prusik Loop. After some use, my soft shackle is now "set" in its wrap around the sheet and even if opened, stays in place with the sheet on deck while I trailer. I've also not seen it shift position from the mid point while unloaded. But the details make a difference, for example, what type of rope you are using for your jib sheet. You may well find that sewing works better in your case.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby bilbo » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:04 am

I understand. I think I'm going to just try the prusik loop. That basically just requires a slightly longer shackle so there's enough space for the wraps right? I've got a few months of winter ahead of me to figure it out (although this week has been incredibly warm, 72 yesterday! I almost went and got the boat out of storage for one last go but ended up having to pull a transmission out of a vehicle instead.) I don't want to use a metal shackle as when the jib is flogging around it could bang into things. I made a soft shackle last night, not sure why I was so scared of that. A local fleet store has them for sale two for $38. I think I have $0.60 and 45 minutes of time I would have wasted anyway invested in mine and it was actually straightforward and dare I say easy. I used the 'Better Soft Shackle' instructions on L-36.com.
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Re: Rope for various lines

Postby GreenLake » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:57 pm

That site (https://L-36.com) has some really great instructions.

When you make a shackle for a Prusik loop, just go way down in the rope diameter; making the loop will bulk it up, because of the buried tail, and you will want to keep the finished diameter quite a bit less than that of your jib sheet (if possible). Dyneema is plenty strong, so there are no worries on that count. (Even jib sheets are generally oversized, for ease of handling, not because of required strength).
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