Jib furler, DIY, PVC

[Tipster1]

I am researching building a budget friendly (ie cheap) roller furling jib system from PVC - entirely for convenience. I am visualizing a pipe over head-stay system. I have found a online references on blogs and forums for other boats, but not the day sailor. Has anyone out there tried to do this on their boat? Any and all suggestions and advice would be welcome. Questions include:
1. pipe size, 1/2 vs 3/4"?
2. how to create a spool for the furling line? So far, best idea for a spool that I have found is two 4" round PVC electrical box cover on pipe sandwiched between connectors.
3. how to route the furling line to the cockpit?
4. what size line to use?
5. Biggest question for my boat is whether there is even enough room at bottom of fore-stay for furler spool.

[GreenLake]

While there are no descriptions on the site, there are reports from other owners who have built them. Click.. Perhaps one of them will have details to share.

On another dinghy I have a roller furling setup of the conventional kind (replaces head stay with luff wire). From my experience with that I would suggest you consider the thinnest line that works - mine looks like 2mm. It's routed diagonally to a point near the shrouds. That alignment would work with the DS as well, if you put the cleat on the side deck, close to the forward end of the cockpit. To furl, you would pull straight back, and when done, you'd throw the excess line into the cockpit. You might want a bag on the inside of the cockpit to hold the excess line when the jib is furled.

As for size of PVC pipe, use the smallest size required. It's really not a good idea to put weight aloft. For question 2 and 5 I defer to the experts.

[Baysailer]

That is how the early buccaneer 18 sailboats had their jib furler and it works OK. It had a 3/4" PVC tube (20') with a drum at the bottom for the line and rode on a 1/2" aluminum tube but many replaced with a 1/2" hose. I'm not sure you even need the hose.

[Tipster1]

Thanks for ideas, guys. Working through details in advance, particularly on a rainy day in NJ should make ultimate installation smooth. (font-> optimistic). pvc over garden hose is intriguing thought, at least at ends, since it would center stabilize pipe and reduce chafing.

[billodusa]

Tipster1,
I added roller furling to my 73 DS2 last fall. It works suprisingly well.
I used the PVC design using the round electrical box covers.
Routed the forestay through the 1/2" PVC pipe. I used short lengths of pvc pipe connected with pvc couplers.
I drilled holes into the couplers for the jib hanks to reach the forestay for attachment. One connector for each hank except at bottom and top of furler.
I attached a small block to the foredeck so that the furling line would be at the correct angle to spool on/off without bunching.
On the mast, I used the original forestay attachment but I removed the jib halyard block above it so that it wouldn't interfere with the large stainless washer I placed at the top of the furler.
I used 1/8" line for the furling line.

[Tipster1]

Thank you Bill... Each post gives me a better feel. I noticed you used two box covers for each side of furling drum. Looks great and must be quite sturdy.

Questions:

1: How did you treat top of furler and jib attachment?

2: Does using couplers so you could "hank" jib onto fore-stay create bulky spots? My jib has fairly substantial bronze clips. I was considering removing them and just fastening jib onto furler with tight tie wraps. What do you think?

Mark V

[ldeikis]

Tipster:

While not DS specific, this page has a pretty good how-to for building a PVC furler:

http://www.rlyachts.net/tips-furler.asp

...I stumbled across it and bookmarked it for later visitng.

Luke

[billodusa]

Added pics to my gallery showing top of furler and hank connection.
The couplers do not add bulk to the furled jib; it looks pretty uniform top to bottom.

[Tipster1]

Thank you, Bill. That helps. I have to recheck how my jib hanks are attached, but I don't think it's quite the same. Yours look quite compact.

[billodusa]

I'm tempted to redesign my furler so that I could lower and remove the jib during the week when the boat is on the hard during the week.
Currently, I would either have to lower the mast or make a sock out of Sunbrella material (although my sail is way past its prime).
So I'm thinking about this design:
Same drum.
One long length of 1/2" pvc instead of smaller lenghts with couplers.
Attach the jib above the drum as currently.
Attach and use the jib halyard at the top.
Use rings on the outside of the pvc to attach the jib to.
This would allow me to lower the jib when its unfurled.
Still need to come up with something to keep the halyard from twisting when the jib is furled; maybe a swivel?
This new design would allow you to keep your larger hanks intact.

[GreenLake]

If you have the space to store the furled jib, the solution would be simpler: Install a spinnaker halyard (Amsteel), use that to secure the mast when the jib is down. Use a jib halyard, to hold the forestay with furler in place. If you add a 2:1 or 4:1 purchase at the bottom, you can use the halyard to tension the forestay and don't need a turnbuckle.

I have a furler on a 15' dinghy that replaces the forestay, but doesn't use any pvc tubing (the jib has an internal wire around which it furls). I tension it as described with a purchase on the halyard (there's an open fairlead on the mast that acts as a "safety", so the mast doesn't come down should the halyard become uncleated). I can remove the jib in the furled or unfurled state, by securing the mast with the spinnaker halyard to the stem fitting and then lowering the jib. Not having the stiff tubing means I can store the jib furled, even if I don't have a space that's the full length of the luff, which is a bit of a convenience.

And I could easily fly a different (non-furling) jib...

I don't see why such a system couldn't be done DIY, but your sail would need to be set up for it. My DS jib happens to have a luff wire, and might well work with a furler like that.

[Tipster1]

Good moring Bill and GL,

Let me share what I've discovered that might inspire you (easiest way to Google search is DIY roller furler and look at pictures).

My previous boat (Sunbird) had a nice legitimate integrated jib and furling system that rotated on luff and was tensioned with a 2:1 purchase. I didn't realize that this could have replaced the fore-stay, so I had both up with the furled jib immediate aft. Problem was jib tended to tangle on fore-stay unless you were very careful when furling. I probably should have eliminated the fore-stay, since it went slack under full sail anyway (jib was taking the load). Another problem was continuous line tended to slip in drum (drum looked like it was damaged some how) and jib would unroll unexpectedly. Here's the hardware they used (I assume you'd need to reconfigure jib halyard to create 2:1 or 3:1 tensionsing - And I'd cleat it to the mast so no one accidentally releases it and create an "Uh-oh!" moment) : http://www.thechandleryonline.com/produ ... ts_id=7026

Various people tried to duplicate this for less money. Here's one: http://navigatorjoel.blogspot.com/2010/ ... er-40.html

Here's a system like you propose, Bill. Note halyard runs up jib luff so everything spins together. What I wonder is if the jib really rolls smoothly around pvc or does it sort of wind from top down and bottom up. I guess you could get cute and either put a track on the pvc and slides on sail, or get really cute and create a groove - two concentric pvc tubes with saw kerf in outer?

From Compac owner's forum - follow discussion http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum ... 6#msg43516

Then go to pictures: http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/mando ... sort=3&o=4

West marine article discusses anti-twist "torque" rope in luff. I didn't think of this, but if you are using the luff as a head stay and twirling it, then twist laid wire could conceivable un-twist if you spun it wrong way. I can imagine with single line furler you could control direction of twist, but with continuous loop, you could turn either way.

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/U ... er-Furling

Here are some questions:

How do I know if the jib luff wire is strong enough to replace the fore-stay?
Which way does wire usually twist (I am away from boat at the moment)? Should I worry about this?

[GreenLake]

Here are some questions:

How do I know if the jib luff wire is strong enough to replace the fore-stay?
Which way does wire usually twist (I am away from boat at the moment)? Should I worry about this?

If it's wire it's strong enough ?

Something like that. The original shrouds on a DS were 3/32, which many people upgrade to 1/8. For lack of anything more specific, I would say for the jib luff wire you would be fine with either dimension. (I've heard of several shroud failure, as cause of lost rigs, but not forestay failures, so I'm tentatively assuming that the loads are not equal.)

Have no idea. And I'm sure I've run my furler (not on a DS, but a slightly smaller boat) both directions w/o observing any ill effects. Don't think the torque on the luff wire is strong enough to unlay it, but am ready to defer to anyone with more specific expertise.

[Tipster1]

Thanks for reply. Info re stay failure interesting.

For some reason, ODay riveted all fittings onto mast and stays are attached directly. I assume this means any modifications or refits require drilling out old rivets and new rivets. Is there any other option?

[GreenLake]

On mine, the stays are attached to the tangs with pins with split rings. So I would not have to take the rivets out to upgrade the stays. But my stays are not the originals; I know, because I inherited the receipt from the swaging shop when I bought the boat. (However, the tangs and rivets look original). How are the stays connected to the tangs in your case?