Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby jeadstx » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:32 am

Jim,

I sent you an e-mail.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:31 am

I do not remember exactly which one it was, but I thought I remember klb67 mentioning adding one of these swivels to his boat and the screws lined up.

http://www.harken.com/productcategory.aspx?taxid=376

I think it was this one, but not 100% sure... http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=4935&taxid=376

However, he does not have an upward release with this mount, as he had to use one of these...

http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=4653&taxid=422

Here is what is looks like on his boat...

1973

http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=119&image_id=1973
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:51 pm

1973

http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=119&image_id=1973

This photo illustrates perfectly the reason I preferred "down to release" on TRW: with the boom at all off centerline, a pull towards the rail results in a release, NOT a "self cleat".
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:54 pm

Not when hiking out. Foot down = uncleat, lol. Sitting in the boat, I don't see uncleating being a problem. At any rate, I still do not see how to hold the sheet in hand under that configuration. But if that is what works for you, that is all that matters... it the right way to do it ;)
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby jeadstx » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:50 pm

I don't really have a problem with the "down to release" on my DS II. I'm going to switch it out with up to release however since my Mariner, Rhodes 19 (when restored), Beetle Boat Swan (when restored) and DS I are all set up as "up to release". I'm doing it mainly to be consistent with the other boats.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
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Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby GreenLake » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:07 pm

The exact angle matters, and may be different by fitting. Tim's picture doesn't look like the stock fitting I remember from someone else's boat . On that boat I experienced the case where sitting on the rail meant that the sheet could not be lowered enough to not immediately self cleat (in conditions where the boom was sheeted in tight). Luckily I was only "sitting" on the rail, not actually "hiking"...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:42 pm

GreenLake wrote:The exact angle matters, and may be different by fitting. Tim's picture doesn't look like the stock fitting I remember from someone else's boat . On that boat I experienced the case where sitting on the rail meant that the sheet could not be lowered enough to not immediately self cleat (in conditions where the boom was sheeted in tight). Luckily I was only "sitting" on the rail, not actually "hiking"...


Seems like it is a good idea to always have an extra foot available on the DS, lol.
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:57 am

Not my pic GL, rather the one DM posted from klb67, and he's holding the sheet in hand, uncleated. TRW has a very similar setup tho. I will say this: TRW never had hiking straps, but at 6'2" & 165 lbs, me simply sitting on the rail and leaning back was the equivalent of someone not quite so tall and lanky actually hiking out, and I still never had any issue with ease of release or "self-cleating". Never even came close to capsizing her, even in some pretty gnarly big water situations, so I must have been doing something right! ;-P

You are correct DM: it's all about personal preference, and what works for you on your boat for how you sail. There is no one best setup for all ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby Zinger88 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:53 pm

DigitalMechanic wrote:My parts:
Harken 205 http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=205


I noticed in a previous post shown below from Nov 2015 that you said your swivel cam base was a Harken 144. Did you change it out to the 205?

http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5110&start=60#p27712
DigitalMechanic wrote: For the mainsheet, I used the Harken 144 swivel cam cleat with a 57mm Harken fiddle. On the boom is a 57mm Harken auto-ratchet. The swivel cam solves the auto-cleating problem by reversing the un-cleat mechanism to an upwards pull. Again, you can hold the main sheet in hand or pull and cleat with a slight change on vertical angel.
Jim H
'76 Daysailer II, Sail #7920, Windsong
Burton, TX
~~ _/) ~
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:19 pm

Zinger88 wrote:
DigitalMechanic wrote:My parts:
Harken 205 http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=205


I noticed in a previous post shown below from Nov 2015 that you said your swivel cam base was a Harken 144. Did you change it out to the 205?

http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5110&start=60#p27712
DigitalMechanic wrote: For the mainsheet, I used the Harken 144 swivel cam cleat with a 57mm Harken fiddle. On the boom is a 57mm Harken auto-ratchet. The swivel cam solves the auto-cleating problem by reversing the un-cleat mechanism to an upwards pull. Again, you can hold the main sheet in hand or pull and cleat with a slight change on vertical angel.


Good point. They look identical in the picture. If I said Harken 144 at the time, that was the part that was used. I was very on top of part numbers at the time, because I had just installed this stuff. Aside from the picture and the 144 and 205 accepting the same size blocks and max line size, the only thing I am seeing that is different is that the 205 says low profile? But I could be missing something, or maybe Harken changed the part number? Anyway, you are correct, the 144 is what I used ;)
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby Zinger88 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:15 pm

I see where the 144 has a height of 5 3/4" and the 205 is 4 1/2". Perhaps that might make a difference height wise in where the cam cleat is located in relation to the line coming out of the block (i.e. different angle)? Thus the reason why I was wanting to confirm specifically which one you used just in case. Thanks! :D
Jim H
'76 Daysailer II, Sail #7920, Windsong
Burton, TX
~~ _/) ~
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:55 pm

Zinger88 wrote:I see where the 144 has a height of 5 3/4" and the 205 is 4 1/2". Perhaps that might make a difference height wise in where the cam cleat is located in relation to the line coming out of the block (i.e. different angle)? Thus the reason why I was wanting to confirm specifically which one you used just in case. Thanks! :D


Nice observation. I really love the 144... a lot! But I do wish at times that the base was a hair taller when hiking out so I did not have to lower my arm as much to cleat it off (but that is probably a very lazy comment on my part because it really is not a big deal). So, I would say between the 144 and 205, I would take the extra height and go with the 144 again ;)
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby bilbo » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:01 pm

I got a Harken 144 cleat base for cheap but it was missing some pieces, like the block and stand-up components. That's fine, as I have a Ratchet block I also scrounged, and I was able to buy the rest of the parts I needed directly from Harken. I never realized they were based in WI; I should have asked them to throw a case of Spotted Cow in with my order!

Earlier this week while investigating how to install the base, I used a method just like Digital Mechanic did to remove the old base as I was worried about any backing plate falling down. I can confirm there's a plate there and it can fall down. When I pushed on one of the screws while removing the fiddle block I could feel some kind of adhesive let go of the plate and it dropped down. Something to be aware of, and I'm glad I did the screw shuffle.

3089

The existing base attaches with four screws and 1" between each one. The Harken looks to be 20mm (0.787") so they don't line up. I'm planning to drill & tap new holes, with the pattern rotated 45 degrees, to mount the Harken base. I considered building an adapter plate, but this is a bit simpler and should work fine.

3090

The base has ears that bump against a pin that prevents it from rotating completely around. If I mount the base 45 degrees off those ears won't be doing any favors. I was able to press the pin out and the base rotates freely. Once the replacement parts show up and I confirm they'll work, I'll lay out and drill the holes.
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby DigitalMechanic » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:40 pm

If I recall I was able to get 3 of the 4 machine screws to go back in. The 4th one was slightly not in sync with the pattern. I believe I just drove a regular screw (not machined) through the last hole. Was on my "fix it later" list, but for as long as I owned the boat it never backed out on me or was a problem, so I guess forgot about it. I don't have that boat anymore, but was about 3 years of sailing it that way.
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Re: Mainsheet swivel base replacement

Postby bilbo » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:36 pm

Yeah they aren't real far off, and the old base looks like it uses smaller screws which might help too. I wonder if the holes in the Harken base could be bored slightly and that, combined with the smaller screws, would allow it to fit.
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