Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

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Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby Windtherapy » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:55 pm

Did the late 60's DS1 come with an outhaul or reefing--mine has neither. I can add a outhaul if needed but reef points might be a tad hard right?
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:54 pm

Can't do without an outhaul, so I'm sure yours is set up for it.

Check out the earlier posts, I'm sure we discussed rigging an outhaul only yesterday (or so it seems). Come back with more detailed questions if those discussions didn't help you figure out how to rig one.

Reef points are not standard, but very useful. You take (ship) the sail to a sailmaker and they will put them in for you. Not super expensive, but if your sails are really old, it might make more sense to get a new set and ask for reef points then.

To use them, you need a reef line and a reef hook. The latter you can get from DR Marine or other places that sell sailboat hardware. For the former, you need to mount a bit of hardware on your boom. Not super difficult, and there are descriptions of this in older posts. Look under "Rigging"( where I will move this new thread as well).

Being able to reef is a safety issue; for longer excursions where you might be caught out on the water in worse conditions than planned, get two sets.
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby Windtherapy » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:04 pm

Ya I am just going to order a new main and jib. I'll install a downhaul and figure out the reef and outhaul.
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:32 pm

Windtherapy wrote:Ya I am just going to order a new main and jib. I'll install a downhaul and figure out the reef and outhaul.


If you are getting a new set of sails anyway, then you can ask for reef points to be put in. Each set needs a dedicated reef line, so if you are getting two sets put in, you'll need to rig two reef lines. For comparison, my sails only have a single set of reef points, but I'm usually not going on extended cruises, so a single reef is enough to deal with winds that turn out slightly stronger than I'm prepared to handle with a full sail.

For really long cruises, some people put in three. But that almost makes sense only if you sail in somewhat protected waters (where wave heights are limited) and if you can count on running downwind most of the time.

Outhaul:
1760

The image shows the outhaul (red line) with the outhaul not tight.

A double micro block lashed to the end of the boom fitting allows a purchase. Originally, I had lashed a single block to the sail grommet, but with two blocks there was not enough space when I tried to pull the outhaul tight. Instead of using a block, I lead the outhaul trough the grommet. A bit more friction, but works pretty well.

Following a suggestion by K.C., I put a V cleat on the side of the boom. Since I've taken the picture, I've re-rigged with a longer line that reaches past the V-cleat all the way to the front. The advantage of that is that I can grab the outhaul anywhere along that stretch to adjust it. However, it tends to dangle a bit and get in the way - so it needs a bit of bungee (thin shock cord) on the far end to take up the slack. (Not shown).

Reef lines need a bit more installation. You should look up the older posts, many have diagrams. Best system, for my money is a single line at the end (to pull the reef point down - and out) and a reef hook at the front. My setup is a bit different, but I've sailed on a number of boats with "hook and line" and it works really well. Good winter project, but do read up on where to place the hardware.

You mention a downhaul? That, I believe wasn't mentioned earlier in this thread. So, you mean a jib downhaul?

I've been leery about installing "yet another line" on my boat. Esp. since I've not been in a situation where I felt I really "needed" one. I would be tempted to design one that's part of the sail, when not in use. For example, leading a line from the head of the sail (parallel to the forestay) to the tack, there through the track grommet and along the foot to the clew of the sail (tied to the clew grommet).

When it comes time to lower the jib, let go the halyard, pull tight the jib sheet until I can reach the clew, grab the downhaul and help the head of the sail come down. To fix in the down position, cleat the downhaul off on the mast somewhere. Not tried this, but I think it should work.

Advantage in my view, as long as you barely ever need this, a downhaul rigged like this stays out of the way and doesn't require any extra steps when rigging/unrigging the sails. Unlike others, I'm definitely comfortable standing in the front of the cockpit (and have the reach to easily get to the bottom of the mast); so I have no need to lead any lines to the cuddy edge, etc.
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby RobH912 » Fri May 01, 2020 3:59 pm

Hi GreenLake - Found your post and picture of your outhaul set up in this thread. I've been thinking about how I might add some micro pulleys to my outhaul similar to what you have done.

I've read in some threads about leaving the outhaul loose when raising the main sail to make sure the sail head gets to the top of the mast, then tighten up outhaul appropriately based on conditions. Makes sense.

Is there a reason why you have your outhaul cleat at the aft end of the boom rather bringing the outhaul line forward toward the goose neck / nearer the main sail halyard?

Thanks
Rob


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Cape Cod
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 01, 2020 11:10 pm

The way I have my cleat (aft third of the boom), I can release and tighten the outhaul along the entire forward half of the boom. I think I loosely follow a suggestion by K.C. Walker in this. The forward end has a bit of bungee cord to keep it from sagging, but that end it tied to the very front. So I can grab the OH anywhere along that part and adjust it. (The scheme would work even better if the cleat didn't have a tendency to let the line slip through, may have to simply get a differently designed / dimensioned one. The principle still seems sound).
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby RobH912 » Sat May 02, 2020 12:06 pm

GreenLake - sorry I was following your picture more than the text you wrote and now see what you said below...

Following a suggestion by K.C., I put a V cleat on the side of the boom. Since I've taken the picture, I've re-rigged with a longer line that reaches past the V-cleat all the way to the front. The advantage of that is that I can grab the outhaul anywhere along that stretch to adjust it. However, it tends to dangle a bit and get in the way - so it needs a bit of bungee (thin shock cord) on the far end to take up the slack. (Not shown).


Thanks
Rob


DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby RobH912 » Wed May 13, 2020 2:10 pm

GL - so a related question to this outhaul thread...

So for mounting a cleat or an eye becket on the boom for the outhaul line is it as straight forward as drill appropriate size hole in boom, use a tap for threads, and then some Loctite Threadlocker (blue or red?) ??

#8 machine screw?

I have not yet any drilled holes into / mounted anything on a boom or mast....

Thanks!
Rob


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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Wed May 13, 2020 2:13 pm

That or pop rivets.
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby RobH912 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:32 pm

OK

I've drilled and tapped into metal before working on cars, but haven't worked with a pop rivet, so I think I'll drill into the boom.

Thanks
Rob


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Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 14, 2020 12:28 am

Pop rivets are easy. And you can get them in aluminum, cutting down on mixed-metal galvanic corrosion.

If you use the standard H/W store rivet gun, you won't be able to do much more than aluminum ones anyway.

What you do is drill a hole the diameter of the rivet, select a rivet length corresponding to the desired "grip" (thickness of materials to be fastened together), align the holes insert rivet and then use the gun to pull out the stem until it "pops". Done. They hold pretty well if loaded in shear.

There may not be enough thickness in the extrusion to reliably hold a machine screw (because of low number of threads). DS boom may be OK, it's pretty hefty, but something that rivets have an easier time with. (I have a smaller boat where the spars are mere toys in comparison, and use rivets exclusively there).

If you can get rivets where a bit of the stem remains (so the rive is flush w/o a central hole) those can be a bit stronger. Also, you can get them in "open" or "closed" form. The latter is watertight (good for keeping water out of your mast when capsizing).

YouTube, Rivet Gun - How to use a Pop Rivet Gun

Sometimes, screws are the only fasterner you can use, in that case, make sure to use TefGel to insulate the SS from the Aluminum. Also a good idea to use it between a SS part and the boom. Stuff is a bit expensive, but you'll need tiny amounts.
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby RobH912 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:59 am

GreenLake - thanks for all the good info on pop rivets and the YouTube link on how to use a pop rivet gun. Looks pretty easy.

I need to figure out how I want to rig my outhaul, choose the cleat, cam cleat or clam cleat that I want to use and make sure I can get the point of the rivet gun to fit... a clam cleat maybe a little problematic.

Saw TefGel mentioned on another site, didn't know that aluminum and stainless steel together cause a reaction.

So you wouldn't use any Loctite Threadlocker, just the TefGel?

Thanks!
Rob


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Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: Outhaul & reef points on late 60's

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 15, 2020 1:48 pm

I've just used the TefGel. Bought a tiny syringe worth of it several years ago, will last you as long as you have the boat, so don't fret the price / oz.
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