Position of boom vang cam

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby tomodda » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:30 am

GL:

Why would keel-stepped mast prevent you from using @digitalmechanic's thru-deck setup? Put your check or turning block along the keelson, a bit aft of the mast. Connect the vang to the boom with some sort of easy-releasing connector. Either a snapshackle or one of those wire-and-ball/keyhole plate setups. Then when you instep your rig, simply unattach the vang from the boom and leave the whole vang assembly in the boat. Including line permanently led thru the tube.

I'm vaguely considering upgrading my vang this summer, and priced out the thru-deck to tube cleat setup. Using racelite hardware:

2 Cheekblocks ($12/ea) - 24
1 tube cleat - 50
1 nylon thrudeck fairlead- 3

So $77. Not cheap, not impossible. For me, a "get around to it" upgrade, maybe. I'm not hiking, but I like the idea of having all controls easily at hand while perched on the rail, drinking my martinis and waving at the yung'ns.

Tom
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:41 am

GreenLake wrote:@Digitalmechanic: with a keel-stepped mast, there is no way I could mount a cheekblock below deck. Would prevent unstepping the mast.


This is true... Maybe a turning block on the floor?

GreenLake wrote:@Digitalmechanic: The swivel cleat: is the line supposed to be fed through the tube?


Yes sir! Cheek block located below the tube, to turn the line up and through the tube... and back over the block at the top of the tube and into the cleat.

This will allow you to keep the vang sheet in your lap when out on the rail.
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby GreenLake » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:48 pm

Nifty device. Do you have a handy reference for vang technique?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:51 am

GreenLake wrote:Nifty device. Do you have a handy reference for vang technique?


Yep, I like it. I picked the "tube cleat" idea up from racing on the thistle. Seems to be standard gear for them. I am going to the sailing club today. Got new sails for the C22 that need to get broken in before next weeks race. Will try and take some pictures of the DS vang while down there :D
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:06 am

Ok, so here are the pictures I took. The boom is sitting low because the sail is down, so the vang angle might look a little strange. But when the sail is up, all the angles work themselves out.

Here is an overview of the vang itself (topside). 5:1 w/ cascade (10:1 total, plus a very long tail)
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:19 am

Follow the red line. Here is the through deck block... Entry point of vang into cuddy

Sorry, it is kind of hard to see the through deck block because the black and white line is covering it up a little bit in this shot.
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 am

Here is a better shot of it close up...
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:24 am

Here is a shot inside the cuddy. Follow the red line from the through deck block to the cheek block on the lower mast section. It will turn off that to exit the cuddy.
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:26 am

Here is a shot of it exiting the cuddy via a small through hull... Don't want any chafe on the line.
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:29 am

Here is a shot from above of the line coming over to the tube cleat...
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 am

The line will hit a cheek block right under the tube cleat so it can be turned to go up and through the tube...
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:35 am

And viola... through the tube and over the the last block at the top of the tube and into the cleat...

Will rotate to face either side of the boat you are sitting on. Can keep the vang in your lap :D

Vang on!
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:02 am

GreenLake wrote:Nifty device. Do you have a handy reference for vang technique?


I made an assumption you meant rigging technique? If we are talking sailing technique, I suppose that we would be talking primarily about upwind work (racing technique such as vang sheeting etc). I race but do not race this boat. If there were other DS's here to race, I would probably have it rigged a little better. End boom mainsheet system... split tail seems to be the racer's choice. I really just use the vang on this boat to keep her on her feet. She stays in cruise mode. It is easier on the crew and boat the ease/hike/trim or luff up than to try and fight a puff with the vang. I suppose I would sail it a little harder if I had hiking straps installed :P
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:56 am

Yes, I did mean sailing technique. Because for occasional adjustments my current setup seems to be adequate, so I'm trying to figure out a bit more about how people "play" the vang - both in theory and in actual practice. Your setup seems geared for quick adjustments - but if I understand your last post, that's not something you actually do very much?
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Re: Position of boom vang cam

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:41 pm

GreenLake wrote:Yes, I did mean sailing technique. Because for occasional adjustments my current setup seems to be adequate, so I'm trying to figure out a bit more about how people "play" the vang - both in theory and in actual practice. Your setup seems geared for quick adjustments - but if I understand your last post, that's not something you actually do very much?


Correct, my intention was to have this boat rigged to accommodate that type of sailing. Then another boat that needed a lot of work adopted me, and money has been flowing that direction. So, when this boat is sailed it is kinda of stuck in "cruise mode"... for now... add hiking straps and a spinnaker and I would probably handicap race it against the Flying Scotts during the club's series races (basically beer cans).

Will try and give a little feedback based on my thistle experiences, the same kind of vang setup is there at the centerboard trunk. You have to be able to use it without moving "you" around too much, preferably already in your lap. I have been yelled at for reaching in to grab the vang sheet, and it is right there (because the boat responds to that little tiny movement). Boat balance is everything... Each person knows when it is their turn to hike and just how much hiking to do (crew of 3). As the breeze builds, the foredeck person begins to hike first, then the midshipman, and finally the skipper (front to back human ballast arrangement). In any decent breeze, everyone is hiking (boat is very tender)... again it just depends how much for each person based on the condition. If everyone is hiked out as far as they can go then we play the vang to get things where we can keep the boat flat. Fatigue can kick in as well which will shorten the distance you can hike and how much power you can squeeze out of the boat. When the puffs hit, you really only can ease the main (if very overpowered sometimes you reach for the vang too), you are already in full hiking mode (or going into it). So, you are really playing the mainsheet and the vang (or "luffing up" if all else fails). The idea is as the puffs and lulls hit, to keep the boat flat, I mean dead flat... which can be difficult to do even with all that rail ballast fully extended. You want to get to where you have smaller mainsheet adjustments using the least vang (max power), whilst keeping the boat flat, in ever changing conditions... else you might get to cool off quicker than you wanted to. Basically constant optimization for max power in the "dead flat" boat balancing game, at the sacrifice of how sore you want your lower back and thigh muscles to be the next couple of days :wink:

In short, we play the vang to keep us in the neighborhood we need to be in to stay in high gear during this convoluted balancing act. We don't want to have big adjustments on the mainsheet (big eases are slow) if we can help it (as you are going through several "hopefully small" ease/trim cycles during a puff), nor luff/pinch the boat if we are after VMG mode. Trying to find a good balance between using as much of the wind as possible while keeping the boat flat using small adjustments.

To be honest, this is probably overkill unless you are pushing the crew and the boat to the max. Outside of that, the location is convenient, and I do not feel like the cost associated with the placement were high. I will eventually make her more race ready :wink:

When cruising with beer in hand (that I would otherwise rather not spill), I get lazy often and just luff her up... and I still find a way to spill beer :D
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