Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Moderator: GreenLake

Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby CGaboury » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:49 pm

Sorry if this is covered in a million other places. I have yet to find a clear and concise answer to my current dilemmas.

Recently picked up a DS1. I'm new to rigging. So excuse my ignorance.

Trying to get her all rigged up on the trailer so I can be confident on her first trip out. However, Im running into a few issues. See the attached image of what I am dealing with.

1) Should't there be cleats on the mast for me to cleat off the main and jib halyards?
2) Where am I supposed to attach the Vang to keep the boom down?

The only option I see in the current setup is to run the halyard lines through the cams on the deck. But that seems foolish Can anyone point me in the right direction?!
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby badgley » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:04 pm

The standard setup on a DS does have mast cleats, but it looks like you have a setup with internal halyards, which I don't think are normally cleated to the mast. Although I've never had them so I'm not sure. I guess you could run them back to cleats on the mast, if you could get the lines to run fair, but that seems tricky. I think they usually go to cam cleats on the cabin top like yours. However, the fairleads on yours, if that's what they're for, don't seem to be angled properly for the halyards. They almost look like they are positioned for something to come in from further outboard and then to run to the opposite cleat, rather than the way you have it rigged. Maybe for spinnaker sheets or something else? I'm not sure, hopefully someone will come along soon with a better idea than me... I can't really see what that third black deck piece is that you have in the middle from the pictures or if that might be involved. I mean, if you just want to get out on the water you could probably do fine with what you have there now. And then once you learn the boat and what you like always alter the setup later. For example, that old 3-strand line for your main halyard is far from ideal because it's so stretchy, so you'll probably want to think about at least that as a upgrade anyway.

The boom vang can be attached many different ways. Mine has an eyestrap on the forward side of the mast all the way at the deck. I run a short loop of line through that around the mast to secure the lower block of the vang. I think some people use bails as well. Mine is pretty clumsy and doesn't get a great angle of leverage, so it's far from ideal if you're really looking for optimum performance. But it's functional and simple and my vang is cheap so I really don't care.
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby CGaboury » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:52 pm

Thanks for the reply! My plan is to attach a cleat (Or 2) to the mast. You are correct in that it is an internal halyard. This is not the stock mast. Also regarding the Main halyard. I just purchased line to replace it. It concerned me as well.

I'll look into the vang setup you described. Thanks!
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:31 am

Why do you need a cleat on the mast for an internal halyard?

I'm intrigued by the fact that the supports for the fairleads are raised. It definitely looks like they were put there during manufacture, so this would have had to be some "racing" version of the DS?

The odd placement of the cleats in relation to the fairlead would be a big problem for any line that needs to be adjusted frequently. For a halyard, you'd probably pull straight at first to raise the sail and then the fairlead allows the line to be angled so it's out of the way of the cockpit.

That is, unless there are any other cleats that we can't see in the picture.

As positioned the fairleads and cleats would also work well for barber haulers (small lines that pull a block that deflects the jib sheet so it comes more inboard for better pointing upwind).

In that case, the halyards would be cleated somewhere out of the picture. However, the downside of that explanation is that fitting barber haulers by the builder seems (1) unlikely and (2) they would not need to support as much force, therefore not need a platform.

Perhaps the odd angle of the fairleads can be best explained by the fact that this positions them best to take the largest loads.

Feel free to spelunk in the gallery here, perhaps someone does have another boat with this configuration, but I don't remember reading about it.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby CGaboury » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:51 am

My thoughts on the mast cleats are to provide a way to cleat off the halyards without having lines all around. There are no other cleats. What you see in the picture is whats available to me. I just don't like the idea of the halyards coming off the mast, through the fairleads and then hanging into the cabin. That seems sloppy to me. If I can cleat them up on the mast, they are out of the way and I do not need to touch them again until I'm ready to lower the sails.
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby 109jb » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:04 am

To me the raised location of the fairleads looks to be about the perfect spot for a couple horn cleats. Also the angle of the fairleads as they are kind of sucks. My thought is that maybe someone replaced horn cleats with those fairleads and then added the cam-cleats.
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby GreenLake » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:25 pm

Duh, yes.

Horn cleats.

I would just revert to them, if that feels better. (The tails of the halyards can be put into a neat bunch and stuck under the short horizontal run - will keep the lines organized - no need to add anything to the mast).

The silver deck cleats could be repurposed for some barber haulers; they are in a reasonable position - not sure if everyone knows about them. They are usually rigged so they cross (so as to be able to reach the tail of the one affecting the leeward sheet while sitting on the windward side). You would want a captive cleat, but you may be able to retrofit that easily.

The other end of the barber hauler terminates in a ring (or better: block) that runs along the jib sheet. Pulling in, deflects the sheet a few inches inward, which, in moderate winds, say 8-12, will allow better pointing. Useful to have and great if you don't have to drill for any cleats.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby badgley » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:50 pm

109jb wrote:To me the raised location of the fairleads looks to be about the perfect spot for a couple horn cleats. Also the angle of the fairleads as they are kind of sucks. My thought is that maybe someone replaced horn cleats with those fairleads and then added the cam-cleats.


Yeah, I think this is dead on, probably for barber haulers, as GreenLake mentioned. And, if you're looking for an additional two unsolicited cents - while you're piddling around on the cabin top you might want to get a couple proper stainless pins and retaining rings and get rid of those threaded bolts and wing nuts. Those things could do some lethal damage to someone up there - yowza.
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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Wingnuts

Postby GreenLake » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:02 pm

The main beef I have with wing nuts is that they are slooooow to rig. And they can work loose.

Although, people have lost retaining rings off pins. Former forum member John Alesch famously capsized on the Texas 200 one year when he tried to put a retaining ring on back on the pin for a leeward shroud (and his crew leaned over to see what he was doing . . . ).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rigging Nightmare (Or not?)

Postby CGaboury » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:02 pm

Thanks guys. This boat was recently picked up for $400. I’m just getting her ready to sail out a few times before the fall. Then she will be stripped down and fully restored. I just wanted to make sure she’s seaworthy before I go through the trouble of redoing everything on her. New pins are def in her future.
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