jib sail attachment hardware ??

Moderator: GreenLake

jib sail attachment hardware ??

Postby RobH912 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:45 pm

I've now moved to the jib as my last part of inspection / review and hoisted my jib on the boat while it sits on the trailer in my drive way.

This should be pretty straight forward, but I can't figure out from the hardware that the PO used / provided with the boat what to use to secure the tack of the sail.

Snap shackle doesn't fit through the grommet (so why use a snap shackle here?), there is also a front stay tensioning shackle that seems to be in the way and a luff tensioning wire set up, but with the hardware I've got there is no extra tension to be had once I raise the jib. Luff Tensioning wire set up goes through the deck, "wishbones" with a block and then there are ropes coming back through the caddy that exit on each side of the the cuddy door and held in place with a cam cleat.

Some one have some pictures of their jib hardware?

Here are some pictures of what I have
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Thanks!

Rob

DS1 #14061
DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: jib sail attachment hardware ??

Postby RobH912 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:48 pm

some other pictures
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Thanks!

Rob

DS1 #14061
DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
RobH912
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: jib sail attachment hardware ??

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:09 pm

Looks like it's set up for quick disconnect. Hence the snapshackle and the one that seems to combine a shackle with some carabiner type hook.

From the photos it's not possible to tell whether there is some permutation of the hardware that would get you the right relative (vertical) position of tack and luff-wire eye so that you can still connect quickly, but also get tension on the sail.

With the tack loose, how high can you raise the sail w/ the halyard? If it can go a bit higher, then that would look better in terms of setting tension with the luff line. If you are already maxed out, then you'd need to shorten the connection to the luff wire.

Also, what about the top end of the luff wire? Is that fixed? And is it where you think it should be?

I don't have a luff wire setup, so my setup won't tell you much (I can shorten my luff "wire" relative the the distance head/tack, but it's done with lashings and after I set it, the tension is controlled by the halyard (the adjustment affects, essentially, the proportion of the load that goes onto the luff "wire" - using quotes because it's a bit of Dyneema in actuality).

Final question is always whether how sure you are which connectors go with which control (if the bits were left dangling with the sail, that's different from them floating in a big bucket).
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Re: jib sail attachment hardware ??

Postby RobH912 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:43 pm

Thanks for the quick reply. Inserted my answers in blue

GreenLake wrote:Looks like it's set up for quick disconnect. Hence the snapshackle and the one that seems to combine a shackle with some carabiner type hook.

Yes, understand the quick disconnect function of the snapshackle, but I would have thought that the bail of the snapshackle would have fit though the jib sail grommet, it does not so that end is attached next to the front stay tensioner / through deck metal loop and there is the usual screw in U-shackle that attached the sail tack. I guess it works, just seems like "left over parts" applied rather than what might be better solution.

From the photos it's not possible to tell whether there is some permutation of the hardware that would get you the right relative (vertical) position of tack and luff-wire eye so that you can still connect quickly, but also get tension on the sail. Seems like the tack would need to be several inches higher to get any tension on the sail from the luff wire set up.

With the tack loose, how high can you raise the sail w/ the halyard? If it can go a bit higher, then that would look better in terms of setting tension with the luff line. If you are already maxed out, then you'd need to shorten the connection to the luff wire. I will try that, however I was surprised to see that with the tack secured, there were was a large gap (greater than 6 inches) from the head of the sail to the mast / jib halyard sheave. It struck me so odd looking that I went and got out the "newer, racing set of sails that also came with the boat, but it too stopped well short of the mast. Since I have not owned a DS not sure how close the head to the sail should be to the mast.

Also, what about the top end of the luff wire? Is that fixed? And is it where you think it should be? On the newer jib sail the top of the luff wire is fixed / sewed near the head grommet. Picture below. I have no idea where it should be. At this point not as concerned about the luff wire / racing enhancement just want to get the boat sailing.


I don't have a luff wire setup, so my setup won't tell you much (I can shorten my luff "wire" relative the the distance head/tack, but it's done with lashings and after I set it, the tension is controlled by the halyard (the adjustment affects, essentially, the proportion of the load that goes onto the luff "wire" - using quotes because it's a bit of Dyneema in actuality).

Final question is always whether how sure you are which connectors go with which control (if the bits were left dangling with the sail, that's different from them floating in a big bucket).
. I've taken a lot of pictures of how the set up was when delivered to me and before I started taking them off, so I am very confident that they are going back the same way... I don't have a clue on what the PO was thinking of when they set the boat up, nor do I know if some of the parts I got with the boat came from a bucket of parts that are sort of functional, but not exactly. The reason I asked if anyone had pictures of their set up was to verify this thought.

As I was switching to the second jib, a storm started to blow in and in my haste to get the sail down I inadvertently pulled the end of jib halyard up the exit hole :oops: I have now stepped the mast and it is now sitting on saw horses while I drink a beer thinking about how I am going to re-rig the halyard.
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Thanks!

Rob

DS1 #14061
DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
RobH912
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: jib sail attachment hardware ??

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:55 am

The lashing in your picture is what I have on both ends of my sail; I don't know how what the magic thinking is that goes into adjusting the length of this lashing, but once you have that on both ends, you don't (need to) use a luff-wire tensioner and could tension with the halyard. However, then you might need a halyard tensioner . . .

If your sail can be raised a few inches that would give the luff-wire tensioner room to work (you don't need much movement, I think).

It's normal to have the jib "sweep the deck" because that is more efficient aerodynamically (google end-plate effect).

I was thinking all the U shackles may have been needed to give some added distance. If you have a spare, you could insert that for the tack, and thus give more scope for the luff-wire tensioner.

Or just throw everything together per your original photos and go sailing.

(The DS jib may end up slightly away from the mast; the class rules give a maximum luff length and that may be a bit less than the length of the stay. Check gallery pictures on the site here.
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