Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Moderator: GreenLake

Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby Lifepilot » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:12 am

I picked up my first DS I and I am going through everything. She is a 1962, Sail #1111. She didn't have a jib sheet or any jib blocks etc. I have found very little information on the rigging for these boats in my extensive online search. She was race rigged at one point and I plan to race her once in a while in our local fleet but mainly to cruise the bay. Does anyone have a good diagram or pictures? What do I need to buy to rig my jib sheet correctly? I have barber haulers on the cuddy. I am new on here so excuse me if this has already been covered.
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby tomodda » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:00 am

Welcome!

Lucky 1's! I love a good sail number.

You can't go far wrong starting here:

https://www.daysailer.org/Rigging-Guide

While you're at it, look up the bylaws so that you stay race-legal. Good news is that running rigging is pretty much up to you.

You are right, rigging ideas are covered extensively in this forum, look at the "Rigging" and "Racing" sections. A lot of things are a matter of preference and expect to change up as you gain experience with your boat. One thing that's made a huge difference to me are ratchet blocks on the jib sheets, meaning I can easily handhold my jib. And a well set-up vang. But, as I wrote, the sky is the limit when it comes to rigging... Well, read the bylaws.

Wishing you Fair winds....
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:36 pm

As Tom mentioned there's really a lot of info here on the forum - it's just organized in terms of discussions, and not like a how-to. Running rigging is left to each owner's preference pretty much, and different people have different ideas that work for them. So there's not a "one size fits all".

Since you are asking for jib sheet blocks, this is what I use:
1818
You can see the tracks and I switched out the standard blocks with ratchet blocks.

I like a continuous jib sheet, not two separate ones.

I'm using a soft shackle in a Prusik loop to connect the sheet to the clew. It's fast to connect, allows the sheet to stay rigged, and avoids the bulky knots at the clew that love to hang up somewhere during a tack.

1545

Best picture I have handy. Shows an earlier incarnation of the soft shackle (light green) opened with the sheet (dark green) lead around the mast (mast isn't stepped, but you can see the special mast raising contraption installed on my boat). To set up the jib, I just connect to the clew with the shackle. Here's one with the newer one (gray) in action:

2664

To complete the basic setup, here's the picture of my jib sheet cleats on the CB trunk. (I prefer them w/o fairleads/rings/loops, but others think differently, it's one of those issues that nobody can agree on).

1034

I won't mention barber haulers, as you appear to be set up with them.

No need to apologize for starting a new discussion, but I'll eventually move this one to the "Rigging" section to keep things together. Start a new discussion if you have non-rigging related issues.

To find older posts it's more efficient to use a regular search engine instead of the built-in one in this forum, but you can limit that search to just this forum. For example: "site:forum.daysailer.org jib sheet".

Good luck!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby RobH912 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:44 pm

Welcome! I like your sail numbers also...

Lots of good information on the site, and I have found folks to be very helpful.

Any pictures of your boat? We all love posts with pictures :D
Rob


DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby Lifepilot » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:25 pm

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I will spend some time and start reading the articles and save the ideas you guys have shared, thank you! Greenlake, are those the Ronstan 55 Orbit ratchet blocks? I had my eye on those on West Marine. My FJ has ratchet blocks and I really like them. Is that strong enough to mount the tracks on the side panels? I will try to get some pictures on here soon. Thanks for having me. If any of you end up in Morro Bay, Calf., lets go sailing!
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby Lifepilot » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:35 pm

GreenLake wrote:As Tom mentioned there's really a lot of info here on the forum - it's just organized in terms of discussions, and not like a how-to. Running rigging is left to each owner's preference pretty much, and different people have different ideas that work for them. So there's not a "one size fits all".

Since you are asking for jib sheet blocks, this is what I use:
1818
You can see the tracks and I switched out the standard blocks with ratchet blocks.

I like a continuous jib sheet, not two separate ones.

I'm using a soft shackle in a Prusik loop to connect the sheet to the clew. It's fast to connect, allows the sheet to stay rigged, and avoids the bulky knots at the clew that love to hang up somewhere during a tack.

1545

Best picture I have handy. Shows an earlier incarnation of the soft shackle (light green) opened with the sheet (dark green) lead around the mast (mast isn't stepped, but you can see the special mast raising contraption installed on my boat). To set up the jib, I just connect to the clew with the shackle. Here's one with the newer one (gray) in action:

2664

To complete the basic setup, here's the picture of my jib sheet cleats on the CB trunk. (I prefer them w/o fairleads/rings/loops, but others think differently, it's one of those issues that nobody can agree on).

1034

I won't mention barber haulers, as you appear to be set up with them.

No need to apologize for starting a new discussion, but I'll eventually move this one to the "Rigging" section to keep things together. Start a new discussion if you have non-rigging related issues.

To find older posts it's more efficient to use a regular search engine instead of the built-in one in this forum, but you can limit that search to just this forum. For example: "site:forum.daysailer.org jib sheet".

Good luck!

What model cam cleats are those and where do you get that bracket they are mounted on?
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:15 am

The bracket is a a replacement for what a previous owner did with a bit of U-channel aluminum. I couldn't find the right replacement so I went to a machine shop and had one made. Some people have built equivalent with a bit of hardwood, partially hollowed out to accept the top of the CB. The trick is to be able to through bolt this so the bolts are placed right at the inner bottom surface of the CB trunk top.

The cam cleats in the picture happen to be Harken, but Ronstan offers comparable ones. I've used both. You select the size so they fit the intended line diameter.
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=cam%20cleats&sitesearch=true
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby Lifepilot » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:01 pm

I am trying to add photos but the "upload attachments" is saying they are to big. How do I fix this?
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:13 am

Lifepilot wrote:I am trying to add photos but the "upload attachments" is saying they are to big. How do I fix this?


You need to resize and compress your images a bit. This old forum software doesn't do that for you (like the new social median platforms would).

You could try e-mailing the image to yourself. Sometimes that gives you an option to compress the file and make the image smaller. For example, on Windows, you can select a file in the File Explorer to send and will be asked what size. Don't use "small" but medium, unless it's a closeup of a single item (otherwise it's hard to see what you are trying to share). More ideas in the "How to use this forum" section.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:30 am

Lifepilot wrote: I am struggling to figure out which tracks to order. I have spent a lot of time on Westmarine but it is really hard to determine which are the ones I need. I found the blocks and the car no problem but confused on the tracks. Can you point me in the right direction and best way to mount them to the coaming.


You'll need the smallest you can get. I have 22" in mind for length, but it may have been 24" (boat's not in the premises). The precise track I got isn't sold as such any more, it's been replaced by something equivalent by now. Something like the ones found here, which is a Harken series 453 dinghy jib track (5/8") wide in different lengths

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken- ... lead-track

Despite what I seem to remember, it could well have been only 18" that were needed. The length roughly corresponds to the distance from about where the thwarts are to a few inches before the cuddy opening.

Usually held on by wood screws that go through the coaming into the "carlin", which is the wood that's under the side decking. At this age, the carlins may have a bit of dry rot. You may need to replace them, or, alternatively use a penetrating epoxy so see if you can't restore enough strength to that wood so it can hold the screws. Or you can dig out a bit of the carlin around the hole, and fill with a mixture of neat epoxy and bits of glass cloth and after it's cured, drill that out. Or, you can insert the screw without drilling after waxing it directly into the the wet epoxy / glass plug, it will harden and form threads that way. Choices, choices.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby tomodda » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:52 am

@lifepilot:

Just went outside and measured my jib tracks - 18". I took a quick photo, will upload later today. GL is absolutely right that you need to fasten your track SECURELY, belt and suspenders approach - ie don't trust your wood coaming alone, get some meat back there.

On the other hand, I went and saved myself quite a bit of money by buying Hobie Cat jib tracks and jib sliders, used of course. Look on ebay, you can get 18" jib tracks for $9 each. The end caps actually wind up being more expensive at $4.75-$5 each (you need two for each track)! Look at Murray Sports dot Com if you want new and you actually might wind up saving due to single shipping. And you need two "jib car sliders" for 5/8" track, Ronstan makes them but there's cheaper as well. The usual MWL on those things is 500 lbs, breaking around 900... in other words, you'll be fine, that's more than the boat weighs. Anyway, I've been quite happy with my set of tracks. On the other hand, my crew is quite sick of hearing me say "Hey, pop that jib car forward two holes, wouldja?" Since I'm not a TOTAL bastard, I usually adjust the leeboard jib car, then tack. But it's perfectly doable on the windward (loaded) side as well, just a pain. If you want it to be doable and not a pain, then maybe get more modern "T-Tracks," but I couldn't see the cost/benefit being in my favor.

Tom
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:31 pm

As Tom emphasized, you need to make sure each screw is secure. On the maiden voyage, the original track came loose, pulled away, bent ninety degrees and snapped: the PO had refurbished the coamings for the sale, but put the screws back into existing holes without attention to the fact that the they had lost all grip over time. I upped the screw size on installation of the new stops and have been doing all the measures described here other then reinstalling the carlins.

Btw, about that word carlin (or carline): (nautical) A piece of squared timber fitted fore-and-aft between the deck beams of a wooden ship to provide support for the deck planking.

While a DS 1 isn't a wooden ship, the carlins do support the side decks.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby tomodda » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:55 pm

As promised, here's my 18" hobie jib track. The forward screws are backed with washers and bolts, because I could reach behind them. The aftward screws go into the enclosed side tanks, so I used toggle bolts to secure them. So far, so good!

IMG_20200413_103125_640x360.jpg
Jib track
IMG_20200413_103125_640x360.jpg (216.07 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby Lifepilot » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:10 am

Thank you GreenLake and tomodda for the continued help and information.I have a couple more questions regarding this subject. My coaming got refinished and possibly replaced and there is no mounting holes for the jib track, just the mounting screws for the coaming. How do I know where to mount the tracks so the jib sheets route correctly?

How do I know where and how I can mount things like cam cleats and cleats, etc to the CB tunnel? Can I screw to this or use bolts etc. without interfering internally with the CB?

Jon
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Re: Jib sheet blocks, running rigging 1962 DS 1 restore.

Postby GreenLake » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:15 pm

Jim, the top of your CB trunk should be substantial enough to fit things, except you might be best off, if as shown in my earlier picture, you use some bracket so you place the bolts horizontally. (Mine have little white caps on them in the picture. They are placed so that they are low enough that they don't go through the top of the trunk, but instead are right underneath it - you can see them if you remove the CB, but they are essentially still flush with the top, so they don't intrude much into the CB space). A local machine shop made my bracket from SS, but others have used wood, and the PO had made his version from aluminum.

With Tom and my pictures, if you look carefully, you should have a good idea where to place a jib track on your coaming. Looks like the forward end of mine goes a bit forward of the seat tank. Tom's picture shows how the vertical placement is just below the side deck, so that your screws will reach the wooden carlin that supports the deck behind the coaming. Sometimes that wood can get soft with age, in which case you need to either replace it (a bit of an operation, but doable) or, if it's not that far gone, find a way to reinforce the screw holes using penetrating epoxy or something like that.
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