Tiler tamer installation

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby Tipster1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:32 pm

GreenLake wrote:The setup you see has been in use for several years; long enough that exact memory has been lost to the mists of time. I have a dim recollection that at least the wrapping turns were replaced once. I originally just hooked the main bungee under the coamings. That wasn't very stable, but I didn't want to drill for an eye strap. I ended up using two fender washers into which I drilled two small holes. One to screw them into the back side of the coaming with a short/fat wood screw and the other one to hook the bungee into. You can't see that all that well in the picture, but about half the washer is exposed and the hook goes into that, not the coaming. The washers can be pushed up out of sight, but they are so unobtrusive (sitting behind the coamings) that I don't bother.


There are things you can do with DSI that are much harder with a DSII. And you can attach flashy bronze hardware that would look silly on FG.

Is most of your sailing on a lake?
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:09 pm

Indeed. But you can mount eye-straps on a DSII that would look out of place on the coamings of a DS1.

I do a lot of lake sailing and much of it at times and places where conditions are moderate. I've done a longer expedition on someone else's DSII in a more remote region and more boisterous conditions.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:42 am

GreenLake wrote:Indeed. But you can mount eye-straps on a DSII that would look out of place on the coamings of a DS1.

I do a lot of lake sailing and much of it at times and places where conditions are moderate. I've done a longer expedition on someone else's DSII in a more remote region and more boisterous conditions.

My specific skill set is such that if there is an eye-strap or loop anywhere I'll find a way to either lean on it or step on it. Kinda like lonely Lego blocks.
My sailing is on an open bay. 8-10 knots up to 15. A long time ago I sailed and learned to windsurf on inland lakes in PA. Wind dies and twists around near the shore. There you're minding your own business and, without changing heading, you go from port to starboard tack. And back. It's stimulating in a boat. It leads to sudden swimming on a windsurfer.
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:59 pm

A beach I sail from has steep hills on one side. Wind gusts will "fall" down from above and spread out on the water, so they can come in essentially any directions depending on where you are relative to the impact location of the gust. If the wind isn't all that strong, it keeps you on your toes, but in stronger winds, I just prefer to keep my distance a bit.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby Tipster1 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:41 am

Follow up - for the moment I went back to bungee system.

I played around with various fastener locations and confirmed that as long as attachment points were forward of pintles, geometry was going to be imperfect. Only question is where to mount TT on tiller. Further forward seemed handier, but stable mount seemed elusive considering size and contour of tiller itself. And it felt cumbersome. For the moment I went back to ¼” line from stern cleat to stern cleat running through a short piece of vinyl tubing attached to tiller with some shock cord. I’ve been able to adjust tension with this and it’s easy to remove from cleats when I have a crew.
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:09 am

Something kept haunting my from Jr high school plain geometry so I finally took string, thumbtacks and thick cardboard to refresh my memory. Bottom line is you cannot describe a circle using a fixed length of line attached at two points. You will ALWAYS create an oval. That's why I couldn't make the TT geometry work. If our non elastic line system is anchored forward of pintles, the shortest distance is when tiller is at center and tiller will resist moving off center. If you leave enough slack to steer, then only thing that keep tiller steady is a weather helm or an elastic line. You and I are relying on weather helm. I may just start to add a segment of bungee cord to dampen the system. Meanwhile line running through vinyl tubing tensioned by elastic cord seem to work well. I should really take a picture.

Out of curiosity, I briefly started looking at self steering systems for cruisers using main sail attached to tiller. "Main sheet auto steer." These systems are the opposite of what you and I would want because they pull tiller to weather when wind gets stronger and make boat head off, but then dampen that effect with bungee to windward. Complicated and unnecessary and maybe even dangerous, IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkDsDWl8zQ&t=320s
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:48 pm

My system isn't a triangle (or at best, a very shallow one), as the bungee is run straight across.

To first order, using a bungee going across simply means the tension makes up for the slight deflection from the tiller (for normal steering angles) so that no matter where the tiller is positioned the line never goes slack.

To second order, being a bungee, it will give a bit when the wind increases, letting the boat luff up. (I call this second order, because the primary function of the setup isn't self steering but just to hold the tiller in the last place it was set).

The third effect of using the particular type of bungee is its roughness. It's easy to generate the friction when I want it, and there's a nice difference between static and dynamic friction: it's late to start sliding, but once it does, it does so easily. Your idea of using vinyl tubing is interesting: in principle I should expect to see some "sawing" in my setup, but I see no trace of that on either tiller or bungee. Possibly because it slides easily when it does (and because I don't use the setup every time I go out, only when I singlehand).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:53 pm

I was mildly concerned with sawing since non-elastic cord sawed through bungee on tiller unexpectedly one day. And I didn't like regular line rubbing on tiller (being a bit OCD.) I'm going to beach soon and, if not to hot, will go out to boat and take some photos and maybe even sail. All depends on wind and weather at the Jersey shore. :D
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Re: Tiler tamer installation

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:25 am

Reasonable concern. Some of my designs are just jury rigs that resist improvement. The coating on my tiller is a very tough PU, that helps, and the wraps are made from some shock cord that I had to replace because of aging, not wear. If I had observed sawing, I might have found a way to refine further.
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