Doyle Universal Power Sail

[ChrisB]

Doggone it KC! Just when I was content with the way I'm flying my UPS, now you have me thinking about a bowsprit. Your design incorporates some key elements that appeal to me. First it's removable for those days when you don't plan to use the UPS. Second, it can be left attached to the boat while on the trailer without interfering with the mast cradle/winch post. Since my sail is smaller, the sprit wouldn't need to be quite as long as yours. I'm still not a fan of roller furling so I think I'd continue to launch it from the turtle bag.

Did you source the pole from APS as well?

[K.C. Walker]

Chris,

I ordered the pole from Dwyer. That way I could get 6 feet and also the shipping wasn't bad because it's in Connecticut, as am I.

This is my first experience with a roller furler, and I've got to say that it's the bomb. This Ronstan series 60 has worked flawlessly all season. Because the sail is on the outside of the forestay, it is really convenient to roll the sail up for tracking and jibing. It seems like three pulls on the furling line and it's rolled up. If I want it to stay rolled up, I wrap the furling line around a cleat. If I want it to deploy, I just leave the line slack and the furler ejects the line and spins freely to let the sail pop open. I feel like I would not have used it near as much if I had to think about deploying it. Having it on a furler and ready to go means that I don't have to think about it, it's just there.

Installing the bowsprit takes very little time, so I always remove it for trailering. The first time I went out this summer on Winnipesaukee I didn't install the bowsprit, but had it on board. The wind was enough that it didn't seem like I would need it. About a half hour out the wind dropped and I was kind of just drifting around. I figured okay let's try the new sail. It was a little bit of a hassle but I was able to easily enough install the bowsprit while out on the water. I raised the new sail, opened it up, and I was hooked!

[ChrisB]

I'm assuming you went with the 0.125" wall thickness on the sprit?

[K.C. Walker]

I went with .065" x 1.5". Josh at Doyle thought that 1.25" x .065" would be adequate for the sail and the bowsprit length, especially with a bob stay. I have noticed that the pole does flex to leeward when the sail is pulling really hard on a reach. It's noticeable but not scary. Actually, now that I think about it, I only noticed the flex while on a starboard tack and that's because I'm more lined up with the bowsprit on that tack. My UPS is approximately 120 ft.² and I have been kind of pushing it, not like racing but definitely for a cruiser.

[Alan]

A UPS having suddenly come within my budget, I'm working up the nerve to actually order it.

K.C., you have roller furling. Did Doyle install a luff wire in your sail? The Doyle website mentions integral roller furling, but I'm assuming that you bought your furler separately?

Also, for a novice (20 total hours under sail, six of them in my Daysailer) would you recommend the large sail that you have, or would I be better off with the standard size for now?

Thanks,

Alan

[GreenLake]

Alan,

I would think it's to some degree a question of what kinds of winds you tend to get. If you are in an area prone to very light wind days, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend you go for the largest sail. With a furler, you aren't "stuck" with it should the wind pipe up.

The other variable to consider might be your weight (and crew). If you are really light-weight and sail single-handed and plan most of your sailing at the upper end of what K.C. reports, then perhaps going smaller is the preferred option.

If you are blessed with reliable winds of a certain strength, then factor that into the equation as well.

Overall, I'd suggest you get something that you feel you can sail at least in some conditions but regularly, and that might give you a bit of room to grow into.

[Alan]

Thanks, GreenLake.

I see three points that apply to my situation that would favor the larger sail:

Wind strength: I'll probably be going out in the mornings, with light winds.

The boat will probably be heavy, in no small part because I'll have batteries for electric auxiliary power on board.

And finally, the point about growing into the sail is a really good one. I doubt I'll be outrunning J-24s in tacking duels anytime soon, but hey, a boy can dream.

[K.C. Walker]

Alan,

When I ordered the UPS from Doyle I told them that I was going to be using it on a roller furler. Instead of using wire they use high-tech rope in the luff. It's actually a pretty cool setup. They put two ropes in the luff spread about 2 inches apart and when the sail is under halyard tension it wraps up very quickly and neatly. When the sail is not under tension it is supple and will roll right up into a sail bag. And yes, I did buy my furler separately.

I'm not sure what to say about the size of the sail because I haven't sailed the smaller version. I'm really happy with the size that I have. It powers up the boat nicely in light wind and when I start being overpowered carrying the UPS I just furl it up and continue sailing with the standard set up. The transition between the two seems to be okay. New England and especially Long Island Sound are famous for light winds during the summer when I find it most pleasant to sail, so I got a tremendous amount of use out of the sail this year. I've had a couple of tremendous sails in September with the winds about 15 kn gusting to 20 or a little more and I did not even think about rigging the UPS.

My style of sailing is to enjoy going as fast as I can. I have the boat set up with hiking straps and the coaming is cut down so that I can hike out easily, and that's where I like to be. The big UPS brings that on at a much more moderate wind speed. In the latest set of photos that I posted you can see that it's light air but I'm already sitting out. Though the boat is not yet planing, it's already up to hull speed.

It definitely was a bit of a project to get the the bowsprit set up. After a good number of hours using that set up I don't think I'll make any changes. I'm using 40 mm auto ratchets for my turning blocks and I'm considering going up to the next larger size. I definitely needed to use sailing gloves with the UPS and I don't normally use sailing gloves with the standard set up even in 15 to 20 kn.

The sail was less than half of the cost of the entire set up. The blocks, the sheets, the halyard, the furler, and the bowsprit more than doubled the cost. However, I'm still happy with the setup and feel that the bang for the buck was good.

[ChrisB]

Alan,

I second Greenlake's comment about the anticipated wind speed where you sail as well as movable ballest (you and crew) available on the boat.
As KC pointed out, the sail loads the rig quickly and you can run out of "rail meat" fast. Even without roller furling, the sail is easily taken in; I sail a broad reach and bring it in blanketed by the mainsail. It launches easily from the sailbag clipped to the mast. I launch and retreve both the UPS and the jib from the safety of the cockpit.

I went with the smaller (approx 71 sq ft) UPS and it has been a good addition to the boat. If I had it to do over, I'd probably go a little bigger but I doubt I'd go to 120 sq ft like KC's! Lean on Doyle for advise. Tell them your sailing conditions, intended use, and typical crew and ask for their recommendation for the "best fit".

[Alan]

K.C. and Chris,

Thanks very much for the detailed advice. There's a whole lot to think about here, especially now that I'm actually going to get the sail.

I'll give Doyle a call and see what they have to say.

As for moveable ballast, my crew is pretty intrepid; when we got caught out by a sudden strong wind in our canoe on Lake Tahoe two weeks ago, her only comment as we air-launched off a swell and came crashing down on the water was, "Next time we're bringing the ocean kayak."

That said, I'm not sure how willing she'll be to sit out. Decisions, decisions...

[ChrisB]

BTW, leave room in your budget for a whisker pole. I had occasion to to fly the main and UPS wing and wing during the Florida 120 and actually managed to get some respectable boat speed in light air.

[K.C. Walker]

Alan,

I talked to three different Doyle sail lofts. The closest loft to me in Greenwich Rhode Island were great to talk to. They were interested in the project even though they had never done one before for a DaySailer. They’re the ones that told me I needed to make my decision about whether I was going to fly inside the fore triangle or outside. It works either way but they actually designed the sail for flying on the outside and with a furler. They then suggested that maybe I should contact either the loft that had already made one for a DaySailer (the one that ChrisB used) or the one design loft in Salem Massachusetts. I called the one design loft and they were actually not much help. So I called Doyle-Ploch in St. Pete, Florida. I talked with Josh Wilus who was fine to deal with.

As I talked to Josh he offered the opinion that he thought 71 ft.² might be a little small for my boat. More decisions! So, once I decided to go outside the fore triangle I could get a significantly larger sail for not significantly more money. You can see where this is going, right? So my rationale was the DaySailer class spinnaker is about 100 ft.² and most asymmetrical spinnakers run larger than standard spinnakers, so I could go a little over 100 ft.² and have a good size sail to use as a moderate spinnaker. The sport boats and hot rod sailboats like the Thistle run significantly larger spinnakers, like twice the size of the mainsail or more. The Thistle runs 220 ft.² for the spinnaker and 185 ft.² for upwind sail area. I figured that I mostly sailed solo and the Thistle is most often sailed with a crew of three so I didn’t want to go that big. However in light wind close hauled and moderate air, while reaching, it seemed like 200 ft.² or thereabouts should be okay, which it has turned out to be.

Once you go outside the fore triangle a furler really makes it work where I think it would be a pain in the butt otherwise. One ends up rolling the sail up for every tack and every jibe because it’s easy. Flying it inside the fore triangle you sail it just like a normal jib. If you go much larger than the 71 ft.² you might start to have trouble getting it to tack around the mast. My sail won’t tack past the forestay without furling.

[GreenLake]

Wow, this thread has legs - over a hundred replies, getting close to double what the "core project" thread ran.

[Alan]

I heard back from Doyle Ploch in Florida (from Mark Ploch himself), and he turned me over to Paul Beaudin, who offered this advice:

Hi Alan,

Below is a price for a UPS sail and attached is information regarding colors, etc. I do many of these for a range of smaller keel boats like yours. I think to start the sail is very easy to just hoist like a spinnaker out of the cockpit. You can always add a little sprit and furler later, if you which. My dad is 83 and sails a sonar. He has found just pulling up and down is easier than dealing with the furler and his sail is about twice the size. This sail is a bit bigger than the 71 sq ft I saw listed will be a 155% overlap and with the roach effectively be like a 180% head sail.
We need a 50% Deposit to start an order.

Paul Beaudin
Senior Sail Consultant
Doyle Sailmakers

So. My crew has approved the expense and selected colors. What do those of you who have UPS's think?

And for that matter, those of you who don't? I'm in the latter category, and I've got some pretty well-considered opinions, but they're open to change.

[ChrisB]

Alan,

My 2 cents worth. My UPS is 71 sq ft (I=15', J=5.4'). The reason for this is I wanted to be able to tack the sail inside the forestay like a genoa. I wanted to be able to handle the sail solo and didn't want to go too big. Also, I didn't want to add a sprit or roller furling to my boat. Mine is launched direct from the bag which is clipped to the front of the mast. I've never had a problem launching or retrieving the sail this way. You can see the sailbag under the boom in my personal photos section (pic with boat on port tack, broad reach). You will definitely want to add a whisker pole as the sail makes a huge difference running before the wind flying it wing and wing. I have a pic of that also.

What size you go with depends heavily on the anticipated wind you will fly the sail in, the typical crew you sail with, and how you want to fly the sail.

Chris B