Doyle Universal Power Sail

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Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:18 pm

Chris,

I noticed in your Florida 120 thread that you mentioned that you would be using your UPS sail, or at least taking it. I was wondering if you had settled on your rigging? Also, I was wondering how you felt about the balance of your boat with the UPS up. In light air when close reaching, how's the balance?
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby ChrisB » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:31 am

KC,

I removed the jib halyard block from the mast and replaced it with a dual, side-by-side block so I have dedicated halyards for the jib and the UPS. I have a block at the stemhead with a "tackline" that runs from the tack of the sail, thru the block, and back to a cleat. This allows me to launch the UPS right out of the bag (clipped to the mast). Pull the tack forward, pull the halyard, then trim the sheet. The UPS sheet blocks are mounted on the flat coaming of my DS II, about 18 inches aft of the mainsheet. From the blocks, the sheets lead across the cockpit to clamcleats. This allows me to trim the UPS from the windward side of the boat in my normal steering position.

As for balance, I have no complaints. Keep the CB all the way down from close reach to beam reach and the balance is fine. On a broad reach, pull the CB almost all the way up. I do find that you have to pay closer attention to mainsail trim as the UPS slots the main well and slight adjustment to the UPS sheet means bigger adjustment to mainsheet.
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Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:02 pm

Chris,

Thank you for your reply, I really do appreciate it!

Are you keeping the jib hanked on and pulling it down or removing it when raising the UPS with this setup?

Are you still considering a smaller jib for heavy weather? I would think that might be something to think about for the Florida 120.
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Postby ChrisB » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:00 am

KC,

I keep the jib hanked on and pulled down. I have a "poor man's furling jib" which consists of a 1/8" line that runs from the head of the jib, down through the hanks to the tack, and then to the cockpit. This enables me to take the jib down without leaving the cockpit.

I'm still looking for a smaller jib but I haven't found one yet. A lot of the smaller boats do not use hank on jibs. I do plan on adding a second set of reef points in the main prior to the Fl120.
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Postby talbot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:46 pm

Jim Myers at Intensity Sails suggests that the jib from a JY15 might work as a storm jib for a DS. He cautioned me that the shorter j-length (the foot) means that the sheeting angle would be far aft in relation to the cut of the sail. That would tend to flatten the draft in a high wind, which is what you would want in the wind speeds we were discussing (20 mph), but would prevent a good trim in lighter air. If you don't want to be swapping headsails all the time, you could try to place some blocks farther forward on the deck. Or, I suppose, have a sail custom built.

I was ready to try the JY15 jib until the head gasket on the car that tows the boat blew out, taking with it the last of my nautical improvement budget.

Question: What price are you getting on the second reef installation?
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Postby ChrisB » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:30 am

I got a quote from a local sailmaker to put the second reef points in for $90. No shipping costs and he will have it done in a few days.
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Postby talbot » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:36 pm

Good price. I think the price I got locally here was closer to $140.
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I ordered one!

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:54 am

Chris,

I took the plunge yesterday and ordered a UPS! After trying to order from my closest Doyle loft, I called the loft in St. Petersburg where you got yours. I'm hoping that I can impose on you for just a little bit more info about the UPS rigging.

When I contacted the St. Petersburg loft, their record-keeping wasn't perfect so they still need to work on getting the sail right. The person I talked to assumed that I would fly it in front of the head stay and use the spinnaker halyard, which he says is the way they recommend flying them. Which got me thinking again, which is dangerous, of course.

So here's the question; how do you have your tack line block and jib attached to the stem head fitting? I have only two holes in my stem head fitting. Do you have three? I understand your double block for the halyard but I can't quite envision how you have the stem head fitting rigged for both the UPS tack line and jib.

So I guess really I have another question which is do you think there is merit in flying it in front of the head stay and using the spinnaker halyard? I realize that I would have to then jibe it on the outside and that tacking it would be not possible. However, it would allow it to be a larger sail.

I would greatly appreciate any further thoughts you have.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby ChrisB » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:38 am

KC,

Prior to purchasing the UPS, I had purchased a new jib from Intensity. The jib came without a "captive pin" halyard shackle on the tack so I just added an inexpensive SST "D" shackle I had in my toolbox. When I purchased the UPS, I simply silipped the shackle through eye of the swivel block to use as the UPS tack block. So my jib and the UPS use the same attachment point at the stemhead.

As for how to fly it, a little background. I was living in Huntsville, Alabama when I purchased the UPS. Wind patterns in the Tn. Valley tend to be either 0-6 or 20-30. I purchased the UPS with the intent of using it in lieu of the jib in light air and I planned to fly it from the jib halyard and tacking or gybing it like a genoa if you will. I conveyed this to Doyle before I purchased and they said the sail had the same luff dimension as the DS jib and would work in this application but they did warn me that as wind velocity increased, my ability to point would suffer. Fast forward to today and I'm living on the east coast of Florida where you can set your watch by the 11-17 mph sea breeze most afternoons. In these conditions, using the UPS upwind is not feasible so it has been relegated to duty as a reacher-spinnaker. The UPS bag comes with a brass clip on the bottom so I use the bag like a spinnaker turtle bag to launch the sail. I still use the same attachment point at the tack shackle of the jib but I now use the UPS in addition to rather than instead of the jib. Unless you have a bowsprit like JDoorly, I don't see how you would fly the sail in front of the headstay.

Sorry for the long answer.
cpb
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Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:56 am

Chris,

Thank you for the detailed answer! I was hoping not to be too much of a bother with my ongoing questions. In my discussion yesterday with the sailmaker he indicated that just a couple of inches ahead of the head stay was a normal place to put the tack line block. Between snowflakes yesterday, I went out and looked at my boat to see if that was at all feasible. I came up with a couple of ideas that I think could work.

It seems to me that I could put a small backing plate underneath the lip of the hull to deck joint and put a block there. Or, epoxy on a faux wooden stem and attach a strap to that for the block attachment. Of course, earlier I was thinking of the possibility of doing a deck mounted aluminum retractable bowsprit. So, I'm sort of all over the map with this one.

Again, thanks for your thoughts!
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Postby talbot » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:42 pm

I like the idea of using the lip. It doesn't change the look of the boat, and seems like it ought to be strong enough. You could fill the concave surface of the lip to distribute the load and allow a flat backing plate. I'm still a little unclear on how one changes tacks with a UPS in front of the job. Do you have to gybe it like a spinnaker?
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Postby Alan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:44 pm

K.C.,

For what it's worth, I'm hanging on every word posted here about the UPS, including your questions, ChrisB's answers, and everyone else's thoughts. I suspect I'm not the only one.
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Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:57 pm

Alan,

Yep, I've been thinking about an asymmetrical of some sort for a while. I can understand your interest! I can't believe I ordered the thing and now I'm having second thoughts about how to fly it.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:09 pm

talbot,

It does seem like the lip would be strong enough and I like your idea of filling to make it flat. One might need to get a stainless backing plate custom-made to fit around the bow, but that shouldn't be too bad.

Yes, if you have your tack line in front of the jib stay you need to take the sail down to tack and you would jibe it around the outside as it is technically a spinnaker. They designed the sail to be able to use a roller furler making it easy to roll it up or tacking.
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Postby talbot » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:00 pm

How about...
1. Fill the lip with MarineTex or structural fiberglas to align with a plane tangent to the curve of the upper surface of the lip.
2. Get an open-based high-strength pad eye.
3. Slowly bend the pad eye in a vice until the feet conform to the top of the lip. I am thinking it would be placed across the beam, perpendicular to the stem line.
4. Drill a regular straight tang section to fit the spacing of the pad-eye holes on the underside of the lip.
5. Through-bolt the pad eye, lip, and tang.

I'm suggesting avoiding custom fabrication beyond a home workbench, because I've had a metal shop get cranky at being asked to produce a one-off of a tiny part for my boat. But you may have connections...
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