Second reef point added - sailmaker recommendation

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:54 pm

Thanks guys, good points all around.

As far as the anchor goes, not sure what I might’ve done wrong? Dropped it in the water and paid out the rode same as I’ve always done. It was covered in muck when I pulled it up, so it was on the bottom …

As far as singlehanding goes, well, I usually sail alone partly because I don’t have anyone to crew for me, and partly because I have found that crew can be just as much as a hindrance as a help. Mostly it’s just because I enjoy the challenge of being solely responsible for getting the boat from point A to point B and back. This debate has been hashed over elsewhere on this forum, so I won’t go into it any further here.

Question about the TX 200: how many days was the event, ie how many miles/day? The FL 120 is 30 mi/day, which I feel is totally doable for me. The first day is most likely going to be to windward, so more like 45 actual miles of sailing, but as long as it’s not howling too bad, I’m pretty confident. The other day, to windward was the only point of sail I had a problem with: reaching and running was fine. I’m planning on tenting it, so hopefully will get plenty of shut-eye.

Reef points: correct, the leech grommets are placed slightly higher than the luff ones. Sorry, I neglected to state that when I wrote 36” and 72” up from the foot. The instructions for the Sailrite jiffy reef kit state that the purpose of putting the leech grommet(s) a little higher is to keep the end of the boom out of the water in case of a broach. It’s only about an inch or two difference though. In practice, I’ve found that the boom doesn’t get in the way at all, in fact the aft end rides a bit higher when reefed. I keep my gooseneck lashed down to the stop cleat in a fixed position vertically, have a reef hook on the forward end of the boom, and luff tension is created solely by the halyard. When I pull the reef line, it brings the boom up to the reef point, rather than the other way around.

Yes, the kit comes with a roll of 1/4" wide seamstick used to prep the 3 layers of reinforcement patches and stick them to the sail for sewing. You pick out the stitches holding the luff and leech tapes, slip the patches into place underneath, and sew everything back down. I used a double throw zig-zag.
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Postby jdoorly » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:41 pm

About anchoring, I always advise, and all the old salts that taught me, when anchoring after letting out the proper amount of rode (4 to 1 for lunch, 7 to 1 for overnight, 10 to 1 in strong current, and everything you got for storms) you must back down on the anchor with the engine in reverse to set it. Once I tried letting go the anchor while still sailing- the boat flipped direction rather violently then stoped. Next time I'll try to have less way on.

About grommet offsets, you know maybe I was remembering using roller reefing. The leech was so much longer than the luff as you rolled in the sail the booms butt landed in you lap!
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Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:37 pm

<laugh> Yeah, that roller reefing is LAME! I only tried it once or twice the first year the boat had me before I decided there *had* to be a better way ...

Saturday, I put out the anchor after heaving to. I have about 100' of rode and a 6' chain. CB and rudder were up. Then I dropped all sail. There was enough wind that even with the jib downhaul tight, it was still catching air, and I had to go forward and wrap a bungee/ball thingy around it to quiet it down. Main was lashed to the boom, and mainsheet was pulled in tight. The boat was still swinging from side to side (a habit of the DS at anchor that someone else mentioned recently), and the GPS was showing about a one to two knot drift to leeward. Tried putting the CB down (which made me nervous since the rode could get fouled on it if the boat were to swing too far), but that didn't help. The waves were just so big that I think maybe the boat was jerking the anchor loose with every hit, and it just didn't have the staying power. Does that theory "hold water", so to speak?
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Postby jdoorly » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:00 pm

What was the weight of your Danforth?

Certainly wind and wave can overcome one's best effort to anchor, but if you don't 'back down' to set the anchor (i.e. drive the flukes into the mud) it doesn't matter how much chain or how much scope. Of course having set an anchor makes it hard to pull up later. You want get lots of weight forward, pull the rode tight and secure it, then move that weight (crew) back to the cockpit for a while. This should release the flukes from the mud, but the anchor will probably have 10 pounds of mud still on it.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:24 pm

I believe it's an 8 or 10 pounder - not sure. It's about 14" long and 12" wide ...

Maybe I just need to work on my anchor weighing skills! :oops:
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Postby jdoorly » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:46 pm

I just measured my Danforth ( that's a style not a manufacturer) and it was 19" along the shank, and 15" wide. It's a 4 pound anchor. The "4" is inset in the shank followed by the manufacturers name. This is the size suggested for up to 16 foot boat and has a safe working load of 600 pounds and sells for $25. Mine came with my boat but sans chain, I added a 4 foot by 3/16" chain. Your 6ft chain even better.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:43 pm

Yes, understood, danforth is a type, not a make.

A 19" x 15" is a 4 pounder? Really? I'll have to check mine again - I could be way off (read: I'm probably way off!) on the weight. I bought it many years ago at a local marina, and was told it was sufficient for my size boat in the types of lakes we have around here. I rarely used it after I learned to "heave-to", and only recently added the chain at the urging of the guidelines for the FL 120. Before last Sat, I tried it out once (with the chain) at the lake I normally sail at (also a mud/muck bottom), and it held fine, in much lower winds, of course ...
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Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:12 am

I think that's about the size I have, but I also could have sworn it was more the 4lbs.... need to weigh mine one of these days.
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Postby ChrisB » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:57 am

Tim,

Anchor sizes are highly relative to the conditions. What will suffice for the weekend daysailor (no pun intended) will not hold in the worst conditions. The marina who sold you your anchor most likely never envisioned anchoring a Daysailer in the middle of Lake Monroe in 20-30 mph winds.

Danforth is also a brand in addition to a style and I can say from experience there is a huge difference. I grew up sailing on my dad's 30' footer and it had a 12 pound Danforth (brand) high tensile anchor that never let us down. That being said, we rarely anchored in open water, rather seeking out a lee shore for comfort as well as safety.

This discussion has convinced me of one thing for the FL120. I have 15' of chain on my larger anchor (I was given the chain). I thought 15' was overkill and was planning to cut it but I've decided to leave it alone and use my much lighter "lunch hook" for lighter duty.
Chris B.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:43 am

I guess we'll have to weigh our anchors next time we weigh our anchors! :P
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Postby jeadstx » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:34 pm

As far as my anchoring goes, on the Texas 200, I carried two anchors. I have a 10lb. Danforth type and a small but heavy 28lb. anchor that my dad used to use. The only time I've had a chance to use my anchor tho in the last couple years was to push it in the sand when I beached the boat. Many years ago when I sailed my dad's Mariner, I used that 28lb anchor. It always held.

TIM WEBB, on the Texas 200 we sail about 40 to 45 miles per day this year, the last day will be about 35 miles. We will be doing five days of sailing with four nights of camping (start on a Monday morning and finish on a Friday afternoon). Last year they had us sailing six days, but because of the winds and our speed we were getting into the camps too early in the afternoon, many times around 1 or 2pm.

Unlike the Fl120, the Tx200 does not sail a loop to get you back to your vehicle. Instead, the day before the start of sailing, we drive our vehicles and trailers to the end point at Seadrift, Texas. We then take a chartered bus back to the beginning point where our boats are at Port Isabel. Most of the event is sailed on starboard tack with winds generally from the south or southeast, occassionally in late afternoon shifting to the east. The first leg of the sail is from Port Isabel to Port Mansfield which is about 40 miles following the ICW route. There is also an option to take the outside route in the gulf up to the Port Mansfield Jetties. The rest is all in the ICW, but not always in the shipping channel, several route options are available in some areas. The second day we sail to a spoil island called Happ's Cut. The third day we sail to Padre Island Yatch Club where there should be an opportunity for hot showers as there was in the 2010 event. PIYC was not a stop in 2011. The fourth day we sail across Corpus Christi Bay, past Port Aransas (dodging the ferries at Hwy 360) and up to our camp at Paul's Mott. On the last day we sail to Seadrift and the end of event shrimp boil. There are probably more navigational challenges on the Tx200 than on the Fl120.

The event is doable singlehanded, many do sail alone. Sleeping ashore in a tent works out well also. I singlehand most the time when I sail near where I live, but prefer to have someone sail with me on the Tx200. Last year I slept ashore in a tent every night, except for the last night we camped we decided to stay on the boat since we were not at one of the pre-designated camp areas. We took a different route than originally planned and met up with another part of the group that only sailed the last two days of the event. There were no good places to put a tent a this place. I slept on my bed board in the cockpit and my cousin slept on the fore deck. It was a good thing we slept on the boat that night, at 4am we woke to wild hogs running down the beach.

If you enjoy the Fl120, you might want to think about the Tx200, it would be great to sail with another Day Sailer.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Postby jdoorly » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi Chris, Yeah, Danforth is a company, and they make more than anchors, but there are so many other companies making similar anchors that it is considered a style now. Mine is a US Anchor, and it's galvanized not high tensile which are 3-4 times the price and have a much higher safe working load.

I bought a 9 pound claw but found I didn't need anything other than the little Danforth, and since I keep it on the bow sprit I didn't need the extra weight out there either. If I can find a convenient place in the cockpit to keep the anchor I'll start keeping it there, but the rode will still go through the anchor chock on the sprit.

So, to reprieve GL from having to figuer out how to split this thread, I will say "sometimes I like to rove my anchor rode through my reef point grommets so I can simultaineously raise the main halyard, weigh hay the anchor, and blow the man down!"
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Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:33 pm

OK, OK, yeah, I know, I'm just as guilty as the next guy for hijacking threads! I don't do it on purpose ... I promise! It's just that sometimes one thing leads to another and then, well, you know ...

But FWIW, my danforth is 5 pounds. It's a danforth that's not a Danforth, but rather a Hooker (my Great Lakes ship captain Grandfather always swore we had at least one in the family!), made by Tie Down Engineering. I'm 159 lbs on the scale w/o it, and 164 with ...

I'd love to also do the TX200, but one step at a time as they say. Let's see how the FL120 goes and I'll go from there. The one is pretty close on the heels of the other, and with other family commitments this year, it's doubtful I could do both. Besides, I'd need more time in between to "re-group"! Maybe next year ...

The one thing I *do* like about the FL120 is the fact that it does go in a loop, and you can "bail", so to speak, at pretty much any time, as well as going back by where you started about halfway through. For a first-timer like me, that's just nice "peace of mind" ...
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Postby GreenLake » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:37 am

I'd love to split this, but it's just too entangled - and on this forum I don't have the right tools for dealing with this situation. I'll create a new topic on anchoring in the boat handling sub-forum that links back here, and then you can continue to discuss things there.

Now back to reef-points (if there's anything more to be said about them).
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