DaySailer.org Forum

Should I buy NP sails from DR Marine or one of the agents listed on the NP Sails International website? Any price variances?

Thank you,

Eric

Just curious, are you only wanting NP sails or are you open to other sail makers?

In supporting DR Marine you would support a business that is a valuable resource to the DS community. That may influence your decision.

I bought a mainsail and jib from Ruddy at D&R about a year ago of course they were Neil Pryde. The price was $795.00 plus shipping. He had the sails in stock, no 6 weeks wait time. I thought it was a good price for a sail I will only use for day sailing. The only fault I found with them no tell tales on the main. I had a local sailmaker install them. The local sailmaker told me he thought the sails were a good quality sail for day sailing. Good luck, John

Just to mention this: tell tales are something you can easily install yourself; they are sold in kits with little adhesive patches.

For the main, you usually add them at the leech, one near the location of each batten.

For the jib, you place them about a foot behind the luff, on either side of the sail, two or three sets (the upper ones so you can check the twist).

There may be photos that show how they are placed on other boats.

Thanks for the input guys. What other loft offers reasonably priced sails?

Eric

If you're really looking to save money, Intensity Sails has inexpensive mainsails and jibs, here

ttps://www.intensitysails.com/gesaforda.html

I bought a main and jib from them several years ago to replace my totally bagged-out original equipment sails and was happy with the quality.

Peak sails is more expensive than Neil Pryde, but not too bad. They make a light-air genoa, here:

https://www.peaksailsna.com/oday-day-sa ... rator.html

I've bought from Intensity Sails for another boat, and they were worth every penny IMO.

daysailingDFW wrote:I've bought from Intensity Sails for another boat, and they were worth every penny IMO.

Now that can be interpreted more than one way

I believe that there are differences between the different sails on offer and that not all of them are due to using cut-rate labor on one extreme or paying heavily for "racing brand mystique" on the other end.

I'm not a sailmaker, but there are obvious differences in the construction of some of the sails. Those that are class legal (can be used for sanctioned racing events, even if not exclusively intended as racing sails) must adhere to the sanctioned number and placement of battens (and other dimensions). Those that are not, can go for different approaches.

Sometimes the pictures allow you to note that sails have a different number of seams, and are therefore built from a different number or arrangement of panels. The reason this is interesting is that the edges of any panel aren't straight. They are curved, and this "broadseaming" is what gives the sail its eventual shape. Such obvious differences in construction will lead to different performance.

Now, it's easy to get the DS to move with any kind of sail, new or old or with any kind of construction. If you don't race, you likely won't have the comparison of a another (identical) boat going your way, so you will have no real way to observe how efficient your sails are. For older sails, you may notice that they are harder to fly without luffing in certain conditions. The leech of the jib is often the first one to "flutter" uncontrollably as sails get older. Another effect is that older sails can't be trimmed as flat, so you may need to reef earlier or experience more heeling. Again, without direct comparison, this may not be very obvious, because the wind changes all the time anyway.

Any new sail will set better than an older set of sails that you replace. And there's the rub. Unless you compare like boats with different (new) sails or otherwise have a good comparison, it's hard to judge reliably whether any particular set of new sails is "worth the money".

Some sails may not even be their best until you've used them a few times (but not too many). They may be too stiff out of the shipping carton or you may need to get used to trimming the best out of a new sail. My first replacement set of sails replaced what may have been the original sails on the boat. The effect was dramatic. The next time, less so. In fact even though there had been clear indications that the jib, at least, had blown out by that time, the new set initially didn't want to feel right. Same sailmaker, and I don't think it as slipping quality. May well be, that I had to "unlearn" some habits that crept in as the old sails went downhill.

It's notoriously hard to get a really objective view on where the best value is for money when it comes to sails. You'd have to not only compare them all against each other when new, but also get a good idea how long each retains their shape and, for cruising, for example, that question has a different answer than for racing: for racing you care how long a sail remains close to its optimal shape, for cruising you might instead care how long the shape remains "acceptable". In other words, you might care more for the tail end of the lifetime curve.

If one set is twice as expensive as another set, and you change them equally often, the former is clearly more expensive. But what if the cheaper one has to be replaced twice as often? (I don't think that's an entirely likely scenario, but still, I like to think of how an expense gets averaged over multiple seasons).

As a result this is a highly personal choice based on a total absence of hard facts (other than purchase price, that's the one data point with the best precision ). I've purchased more than one set of sails from Hank Jotz in California. By price, they are "higher middle class"; cheaper than the top-line racing brands, and more expensive than several of the other options. I've generally been happy with them and I actively "race" but not against like boats and in a casual setting (where most of the other boats don't upgrade their sails all that often, so we all tend to use them until they become hopeless).

So I am going to add a question on to this NP Sail thread...

Anyone have a NP Spinnaker ? If you do, what do you think of it?

Wrote to NP and the quote is $450 with a sail bag; but not sure of the weight of the cloth used.

D&R web site just lists NP main & jib sails, no spinnaker

NP is a lot cheaper than a North spinnaker which is listed for $1,099.

Still looking for a spinnaker for #2444...

Thanks

I'm more in the same boat as you. In the sense that I would need to replace my spinnaker sooner or later. Currently sailing with a hand-me-down from another boat class (but similar enough measurements). Frankly, my thinking would be that you are paying for the name with some brands. Any differences probably not observable unless you sail against another boat and can compare directly. Do you frequently sail in light/very light winds and need to optimize for that condition? SLO is offering something as a "racing spinnaker" for a price that's between the two you cite, but closer to the lower end. My own favorite sailmaker seems to finally have retired.

GL - Yes I too believe we pay for brand names, that being said I do think North makes outstanding sails.

Thanks for mentioning SLO, I did look at the site. A little more money, I think I'm going for the lowest cost option; plus NP is out of CT near me.

The NP spinnaker is made of .75 oz nylon; currently a three week delivery. I had made the comment about the sail cloth weight as I saw on the North site spinnaker of options of either .5 or .75 oz. same price. It seems like .75 is the standard weight, and if you sail often in light winds .5 might make sense.

This summer the plan is to sail several times a week including one day club racing, and I've got some crew wanting to sail that have said they want to sail spinnakers. #2444 is getting some hardware and rigging work done for a spinnaker this spring so I can do that, I need a spinnaker, so think I'll get a NP.

Now the fun part of trying to pick out the colors / pattern. Need a box of colored pencils.

Thanks

Good choice keeping it local. .5 oz is the lowest weight that the class rules allow for racing. Looks like it's not really that tight of a limit. Don't actually know what the cloth weight is on the one I've been using, although it does have some patches . Would need to figure that one out if I ever got a replacement, because if it is .5 I definitely don't want to go higher for our area here. If it's .75 then I don't think I need to go lighter, most days I do get the thing to set.

Have fun with crayons! Mine is pure red - that's the way I got it. As the decks are red on my boat, I kinda like it that way.



In the detail picture your can kinda see my bamboo pole and 1/2 of the uphaul being bungee (should really be 60% to not overstretch it).

Good luck getting everything ready for summer.

(For the benefit of any other readers who may have seen this thread first, here's the link back to our earlier discussion on how to rig a spinnaker.)

GL - the red spinnaker looks good on your boat, and thanks for the rigging comments and link.

Spent some time looking at many spinnaker designs and after all that went with a simple, somewhat "retro" looking design of the central horizontal panel in Ocean Blue, head and clew radials in White. The deck is a light blue, should all look nice together.

NP contact in CT was easy to work with.

Thanks!

"Ocean blue" the medium blue in your samples? Should look good!